GODZILLA: Which King is really King?

You mean my Godzilla vs Gamera discussion? That was a pretty cool debate they had going there. I think the strongest Godzilla is FW.

Godzilla (Final Wars one) was more agile than burning godzilla, and didnt need to ener a state of crisis do use the red radiation breath used to kill Keizer ghidorah.

Final Wars Godzilla- just about

@DEVIANTEIST - Honestly I didn't think you would be the one to make this thread. For now I'll wait for more opinions to circulate or for GMAN to arrive so we can do this thing the right way. 

@Kage432- "Honestly I didn't think you would be the one to make this thread."- Really? Why do you think that?
As for that, I think if Gman2887 drops in here, we'll have an insanely nice debate on our hands.

@DEVIANTEIST - I didn't think you'd be curious enough to want to engage in debate.

Oops lol

@Kage432- I'm a very curious person, and it was you and Gman's debate, and our short debate, that inspired me to figure out what everyone thought. Curiousity might kill this cat, though. Plus, it helps me learn how best to interact with other people, in person or digitally.

@DEVIANTEIST - Well, versus threads always did have a way with bringing all kinds of people together under a single topic. I've met some of the most brilliant people through them and some of the most stubborn.

Also, edge up your OP. A path to one of the discussions isn't working.

@Kage432- So I've seen. A previous topic of mine, Zilla: Respect or Tolerance, brought in many different minds, and was quite a great topic, till it flash-froze at 54 replies. As did Who Is Godzilla's Ultimate Foe.
I like to stir up the pot. I hope this topic'll do that yet again.

@DEVIANTEIST - So, will you be participating in today's debate my friend?

@Kage432- I'll be doing the same as you. Waiting for more opinions before I step in myself with my view.

Well I think it's well known by any1 that regularly visits the classic section that my vote goes to Burning Godzilla for a number of reasons, that I've listed on so many threads. I'll look them up and copypaste the answers onto this 1 eventually.

@DEVIANTEIST - Sorry, this just occured to me. Are you treating this as an actual versus thread? If so, there a couple of rules you should set in the OP to prevent certain problems in the future of this thread from arising.

@Kage432- Hm. I'm glad you pointed that out. Please, send me a PM with more details.

@Durp004- I look forward to seeing your posts.

I say all incarnations of Godzilla are the same. There is only one. Well techniacally three. The one who rampaged in 1954. The one who appeared in the sequel and we followed through the rest of the series (I also assumed he was the son of the 1954 Godzilla) and Minilla aka Godzilla Jr. I believe all the Godzilla's in the movies (except 1998) are the same being and is the one and only King of the Monsters.

@KINGKAIJUGOJIRA That's actually not true. In the Millenium series they actually say that the Godzilla from 1954 was different. Then again the millenium series had many different incarnations but it also further proves my point. Especially with GMK since that Godzilla was a mainfestation of world war II soldiers' souls. And in the Heisei series there is Godzilla Jr who is not Minilla since in final wars minilla came up next to Godzilla Jr.

In my defense, my argument was just my opinion. I believe that it is they are all the same creature. It may or may not be exactly true, but it is what I think.

Godzilla 2014 looks the most powerful to me, because he has armored skin,and he appears to be stronger than the most previous incarnations of godzilla in the past.

smog monster godzilla, he'll just fly away

@Junkerde- I found that funnier than I think I should have. Thanks for making my day!

Not sure why some of you are waiting on me. I've never been that interested in talking about how powerful different Godzillas are. Technically they're all king of the respective timelines they exist in.

Another thing I want to propose, for those who enjoy the conversation, are changing variables. The Final Wars Godzilla slung Kumunga clear over the horizon, Showa Godzilla had a rougher time. Who's to say the Showa Kumunga isn't stronger? Maybe it would've given the Final Wars Godzilla a tougher fight? What if the Heisei monsters are much stronger than the Final Wars monsters? It might provide a greater challenge.

Some of these Godzillas may be stronger, or maybe the monsters their fighting are weaker? Perhaps it's time to compare monsters in terms of which Godzilla we're comparing? For all we know Showa G has the strength to one hit KO the Final Wars Godzilla.

Just something to propose for those who enjoy the conversation.

@GMAN2887 - That is why we use feats in these discussions. And about Kumunga. Not only does Kumonga only fight via shooting web nets that get you all sticky and jumping around like a dumbass thus his showings in the Showa era are perfectly identical to his showings in Final Wars, it wouldn't matter. Their battle was not the issue, it was how much physical strength Godzilla had at his disposal to toss another Kaiju that far to begin with. Have you any idea what monsterous strength that would require to accomplish such a feat?

Also. Has Showa Godzilla demonstrated physical power equal to or beyond the force of impact that would result from being smashed on your head top by a kaiju sized meteor that decimated the surrounding environment? If not then THAT is how we know that Showa Godzilla is incapable of one-shoting Final Wars Godzilla. Feats.

I simply think "feats" or accomplishments, is a rather narrow way of looking at this. It makes it easy to explain away some things, but it still doesn't write off the Heisei monsters and their obnoxious powers compared to what Godzilla fought in Final Wars. It also doesn't include other variables from universe to universe.

I'm not saying Final Wars Godzilla isn't the strongest, but I don't think it's as finite as you or some others say. Presumptuous still.

@GMAN2887 - I understand that the use of feats may rule out certain mechanics as they are indeed accomplishments but that is exactly why to this day we use them in versus threads. It goes like this, if Godzilla has been shown to be capable of something and it doesn't fall under the no limits fallacy it can be used. And it doesn't write off any of the capabilites of the Heisei monsters at all. If they have something they can actually apply in battle that does not hinge upon a plot device or circumstances that cannot be applied out of their universe then you may use them accordingly. For an example, in a popular anime series titled Naruto, there are clan members capable of manipuating your senses, making you experience horrible illusions called Genjutsu. However, to accomplish this the user must manipulate the target's chakra in order to achieve the effect. This poses no problem within the Naruto universe as every ninja has chakra, but outside of Naruto the ocular hypnosis of the sharingan as its called cannot be used against an opponent without chakra. So simply put, sharingan users cannot trap Spider-man in a genjutsu.

As for feats, its a simple concept and the most effective way when added with the basic rules of this versus thread to ensure that these characters can be pitted against each other appropriately.

@Gman2887- The reason I waited for you to possibly post here, was to get that unique perspective you carry about yourself. It's a refresher, you see. Keeps our minds (er, mine at least) cranking.

@Kage432- You have a valid point in what you say, so why not start comparing the Godzillas themselves?

@Something Real- I have no idea why, but whenever I read your posts, I can't help but both feel enlightened and amused. You really do bring up great points.

@DEVIANTEIST - Because when I do that outright people think I'm being a know it all or whatever fits their arguments lol. I want to lay the ground work so that you guys can put the peices together and start debating with feats yourselves, and if I feel that someone's raising strong points against mine I'll step in to defend my arguments :)

In terms of fighting ability, Final War Godzilla.

However, if the Godzillas were to fight one another, G-14 would likely win (or at least be a formidable combatant) due to his size.

Well, the American Godzilla (2014) is a realistic take on the 1954 Gojira. The AmeriGoji has a tough armored hide unlike most Gojira who's main defense is fast regeneration rather than tough hide. Thus the American Godzilla can take more of a beating than the other relatives. I mean, if "they were trying to kill it" back in the Nuclear 'tests' in the 50s and it still survived (presumably), I'd say the American Godzilla is tough.

Offensively, as far as melee combat, again I say the American Godzilla.  Yes, it's slightly taller than Japanese Gojira, but the American Godzilla has a much bigger build. This bigger size plus its armored hide would make any melee attacks that much more DAMAGING! Edwards was inspired by Bears and Komodo Dragons for the American Godzilla, making a close range fight very bad for your health! Much more lethal than boxing your opponent.

As far as the Atomic Breath, right now (20 days till movie release) we don't know much about the American Godzilla's Atomic Breath.

The 1954 Gojira had a mix of super intense heat and nuclear radiation. Later Japanese Gojira toned down the heat and radiation in favor for intense pressure.

I imagine the American Godzilla being an improved form of 1954 Gojira Atomic Breath. Only I imagine the heat/radiaiton levels being so HIGH that it's like real Nukes, just about nothing could survive the hit. Japanese Gojira's fast regeneration can't stop everything (like too much heat as in the meltdown case). Imagine a the Final Wars Gojira being hit by such intense heat that either he will die from his organs melting or his nuclear reactor going critical.

@TRUE AMERICAN GODZILLA - His size doesn't necessarily mean he will be as physically strong as his older incarnations. Gareth Edwards is aiming to keep this film as grounded as possible and as such I personally don't see him comparing to Final Wars Godzilla who not only possesed insane levels of physical strength, enough to throw Emperor Ghidorah (A much larger Kaiju) far into the sky and Kumonga well over the visible horizon, but his standard atomic breath had Red spiral ray level feats, usually finishing off all but the most elite of his oponents in one hit. 

While it is true and very impressive that Godzilla 2014 withstood, possibly multible megatons of explosive power, I'll wait to see what else he has in terms of durability. I remember in one of the tv spots he was being fired upon by multiple missles and they seemed to affect him to some degree. I don't think I need to restate how durable Final Wars Godzilla is. The man's a TANK. When I think about it though, mostly all modern incarnations of the monster have retarded durability feats. There's the instance in G against MG where he survived being frozen at absolute zero and some how broke free, probably thanks to his nuclear pulse ability. Godzilla's durability in almost all of his recent showings are pretty broke lol. Combined with his insane regen I'd say no fight between the zilla's would be quick, but there is a difference in power.

@SOMETHING REAL - And he was also originally set to rematch Destroyah. Think about how the writers must feel about his power for them to have originally considered that.

Okay I'm probably going to make a few posts to follow this 1 up after work, but I figured I'd throw in why Godzilla from Final Wars had the weakest or stupidest monsters any Godzilla in the series did, thus why all his fights seemed insanely 1 sided

Gigan in antarctica- Gigan his him with grappling hooks then stood about 50 feet away waiting to reel him in as his saw spun, thus took a headshot and died. The Gigan from showa was always on Godzilla because well, all his weapons were melee. His saw, hooks ect. This 1 stood still and tried to pull him in, which wasn't working for the most part. He could have run up to him with the blade going but nope, stand still and wait. Think that explains why he's 1 of the stupider incarnations.

Zilla- Joke fight meant to take shots at the american 1 not really indicative of either monster's powers

Kumonga- Doesn't use the projectile stinger from the showa that did the most damage to Godzilla in their earlier fight. Just hops around and shoots a web with huge holes that doesnt stop godzilla's movement at all. 

Kamacuras-Did about the same as the showa

Rodan/Anguirus/King Ceasar- Without a doubt the weakest version of all 3 of these monsters by a long shot. Let's look at what they all do in this fight shall we?

Rodan- Flies around aimlessly till he gets knocked out of the air and koed instantly. That's right the Rodan that charged headfirst into Ghidorah in there first meeting and fell to the ground together just to get back up and keep fighting got koed in 1 hit. The Rodan who even when he was the smallest monster in the Heisei took multiple shots from Godzilla's atomic ray, and MechaG's plasma grenade point blank gets koed from getting hit by anguirus, not that he did anything in the fight anyway.

Anguirus- Doesn't fight he plays the ball for King Ceasar's and Godzilla's soccer match. Then get's koed by getting hit into a rock. Yep gets bounced around goes through buildings with no problem but a rock ends him. 

King Ceasar- played soccer then ran up to godzilla and got thrown on top of the other 2 and done. Didn't get hit with a beam, didnt't get punched or kicked jumped into Godzilla's arms got tossed on the other 2 and done. It's silly enough to be a joke, but that sad part is that it isn't.

Not going to talk about hedorah and ebirah, because literally blinking at the wrong time would cause you to miss that fight, and gigan comes back but fights mothra for the most part so nothing to address there

Monster x- Pretty much a draw for the most part, Godzilla might have had a slight upper hand but nothing worth noting.

Eventually I'll get to why Heisei godzilla is the stronger of the 2, burning godzilla in particular but first thought I'd give some perspective on the monsters he fought. Any1 who's average will look like a beast if you put him against some of the biggest joke fights in the fanchise.

I think it moreso points at them being the weakest, as I said most of them didn't even use moves they had in the past, they just sat there and got dropped 1 by 1. Had king Ceasar actually gotten punched, kicked or shot I might see how Final Wars in so strong, but for the most part he doesn't do much besides shoot a beam at a few. Shot a beam at kamacuras then threw him onto a telephone pole essentially, almost exactly what the showa godzilla did except the showa Godzilla slammed kamacuras into the ground rather than impale him on something. Kumongs he threw away, which is really the only true agrument for how strong he is by how far he sent him. Granted he grabbed the rope when Kumonga was in the air so not as though he had to lift him, and Kumonga isn't exactly the heaviest monster. Besides throwing Kumonga I don't see anything he did that was that amazing or so far beyond other Godzilla's abilities.

Some say he took a meteor to the face but I disagree with that. For 1 monster X who was inside the meteor floated down after the explosion. Had godzilla actually been hit by the meteor Monster X would have been immediately on top of him, but the fact the monster floated down afterwards points to the meteor being destroyed in the air. Granted he did take the huge explosion like a champ, but what Godzilla hasn't been able to take an explosion?

Heisei Godzilla got so many boosts and power ups throughout his series it's hard not too see him as the top 1. Not to mention, unlike final wars who fought joke fights, every monster Godzilla fought in the heisei era was larger than him. 2 were made of his cells so essentially clones, 1 was a weapon made specifically to destroy him, 1 was a future monster with tech outside our current ability even now, and the last was powered by the only thing to strait up kill a Godzilla. Then there's the argument that his body couldn't take his power as burning Godzilla. Despite whatever feats other Godzillas have done they are all roughly the same in terms of defense, with it varying only slightly, but Burning Godzilla's power was too much for his body. To Say this Godzilla couldn't survive with his power, but another has not only surpassed it but done so with little to no consequence to his body leaves me wondering, I'm sure I won't convince any1 that believes final wars is the most powerful, just as they won't convince me burning Godzilla isn't the most powerful, but just giving my reasoning for why I see it the way I do. 

I would have to say that the 1995 burning godzilla was the most powerful only because he took in so much power that his heart was melting from the inside out. :)

@Durp004- While you make great points, virtually all of them fall under PIS and/or CIS, so they don't really prove anything. Especially the Gigan and Rodan/Anguirus/King C. stuff.

Not trying to be rude, but the stuff is in the OP.