Is Godzilla an Avenger?

This is definitely ranks up there with some of the more idiotic things I've come across on this site.

Wonder what he found idiotic about a perfectly honest question...

I'm thinking he didn't get past the title. He probably thought you meant 'Is Godzilla a member of the Avengers, alongside the likes of Iron Man, Captain America, and the Hulk?'.

Reading can be hard for some people.

But to clear things up, when I said avenger, I was not in any way referring to Marvel's avengers. I'm referring to Godzillla avenging his own kind. If anyone else finds that idiotic let me know now and I'll request that a moderator have this thread locked for obvious reasons. Thank you.

For those of you who understand what the definition of avenger is and that it is in no way exclusive to a comic fantasy series published by Marvel I thank you for your competence, but at this point I won't fight with people any longer on this site over simple matters.

If that's what he was talking about, it's not your fault. It's his for not getting past the title.

Instead of requesting to have the thread locked, you might want to request a title change.

I don't feel that I should have to go to that length but if I must may I ask what I would have to do to get the change requested? 

'Is Godzilla seeking vengeance against the Mutos?' could work. I wouldn't worry about it until you get a bunch of people saying 'WTF Godzilla isn't owned by Marvel DUUUUURRRR'

@SOMETHING REAL - I understand you 100% my friend, but in my honest opinion, as a member of any forum site you have the personal obligation to read the opening post or OP before making a post. If you can't do something as simple as that than why even post? You'll sound like the odd one out more often than not. That isn't something I imagine anyone wants, am I right? Read the OP, do it for yourself if not for anyone else.

Getting past the stupid title and for the sake of discussion. G's beef with the monster is more instinct than personal. As gareth said regarding the mutos, it's a major part of the godzillas' life cycle. So forget the "you kill mama, me kill you" shit.

Just kidding! :) I actually read your WHOLE post before commenting!

Its an interesting idea you have there!  Revenge would be a good motivation, and one that audiences could understand and get behind.  We'll have to wait and see! :D

@COCKZILLA? - Wait, so getting past the rude forum members that I seem to be attracting and for the sake of discussion, if Gareth said that the Muto are connected to Godzilla's life cycle, why would I forget about the creature's possible motivations for wanting the Muto dead if they present a threat to not only him but his potential offspring? Ignoring that "shit" seems to be the opposite of creating threads that provoke everyone into speculation regarding what we DO NOT KNOW about in the upcoming film, do you follow? You may be right of course and everything in Godzilla is driven by *mere instinct, but its always fun to speculate. BTW, I'm thinking about changing the thread title to READ THE OP ;) lol

Thank you guys for your thoughts, and of course to DANZILLA93 for the throwback Godzilla vs Avengers scan lol. I'll keep this ship rolling then.

@SOMETHING REAL - Will do my friend :)

No, I read the whole post. Gareth has said time and time again that Godzilla is like an earthquake, a volcano eruption, a storm, a hurricane- a force of nature. Now, please tell me, do any of those things seek to avenge anything? And they DID seek eachother out, as it is printed on the back of one of the action figures that they were ancient foes. And I think Gareth even says in an interview with Max Borenstein that Godzilla wants to spend his days unbothered before our arrogance with the MUTOs makes him wake up.

You're welcome, Kage432! :) Keep up the discussion!  Don't let goobers like Cockzilla (I feel wrong just typing that name) bring down a perfectly valid hypothesis.  Part of the fun of being pumped for a movie is speculating on areas where the answers remain a mystery.  Bring it on!

Bummer, my first multiple post oopsie. :P

To be honest, I'm going to have to say that it's just natural instinct for Godzilla to have hatred for MUTOs.

Although it would be interesting if he was trying to avenge passed relatives, I really don't see it happening.

@GTBETTA35 - Well for starters allow me to address the points you made that are wrong. First of all, Gareth did say Godzilla is a force of nature, he did, but comparing him to an earthquake, or a volcano is nothing more than hyperbole. Do earthquakes walk? Do volcanoes have children? Can a tsunami bleed? Of course not. Secondly, being rivals or foes in no way suggests that you constantly hunt each other to the edge of extinction. The actual definition of foe is simpy an opponent or enemy, that is all, everything that happens within that relationship is not tethered to the title. It doesn't mean they are always looking to find each other and end things, show me on the box where it says that they do and I'll admit to being wrong. If you cannot provide a source with proof then there is nothing further to discuss on the matter. And as for Godzilla wanting to be left alone, doesn't that better serve to conflict with your earlier statement about them actively hunting each other?

@DANZILLA93 - Don't worry, It got me once or twice as well :) 

Godzilla wants to be left alone and live out his days in isolation. Gareth and Max say this, but because we woke the MUTOs up, he has to restore balance, because they act as a threat to Godzilla, and we have to pay the price for our arrogance. That is it. I don't need to dwell into this incredibly silly claim that he's trying to avenge anything. Not only does the packaging say they're ancient foes (who dont just fight when they cross paths, what kind of silly stuff is that? They've obviously hunted eachother or else the story would be pointless. Who wants to see a movie where Godzilla fights 'that guy he runs into from time to time'?) But it also says he awakens from his solitary slumber simply to end the threat that has awoken.

Action Figure Packaging

@GTBETTA35 - "Until a threat to his survival from an ancient foe forces him to appear." Thanks for that bit of information, now allow me to explain it to you. For Godzilla to be a creature of PURE INSTINCT he would not be allowed the ability to experience anger, only instincts that ensure his survival which translate into aggression, correct? That is what is defined as instinct at its basis, and its what animals are at their core. FROGNATION intiated a rather compelling thread that explored whether or not Godzilla could be capable of emotions such as anger. In that thread many interesting points were made but one fact remained certain, only beings of higher intelligence could experience complex emotions like anger, and Godzilla comes from stories upon stories that explore those emotions and intellectual abilities being accessible unto him. Heres the link if you want more details:http://www.godzilla-movies.com/community/forums/topic/33765

Now then, that being said and from what you've already stated, Godzilla should be incapable of anger or wanting to avenge anything, its slly right? Well, you wanna know what else is silly? Asserting that claim while attempting to argue that Godzilla wants to go out of his way, out of the safety of the ocean to confront two monsters that could potentially overwhelm him - doing all that because they pose a threat to his survival. But doesn't that seem rather odd for an animal, to remove himself from safety and reveal himself to the enemy thus giving up his advantage just to have a brawl? And taking in account that you believe him to be a paragon of balance, well that further complicates his basic instinct because now you are implying that Godzilla has some sense of right or wrong, some sense of justice, restoring balance is something only a being with those understandings can accomplish. Why else would he restore balance? Because its instinct to stand against evil and repel humanity's arrogance? What sense does that make? Thats not what creatures with lower intellegence spend time doing. Thats an act of a creature of higher intelligence, a creature capable of feeling complex emotions like anger, hate, fear, and the desire to avenge. No animal would ever put itself in harms way for the sake of anything beyond its own survival or the survial of its offspring, and certainly not to start a fight with a monster that is unaware of its presense, giving up the element of surprise and potentially endangering itself. That isn't instinct and it never will be.

yeah he probably has emotional qualities but I'm not seeing the vengeance thing. 

@JUNKERDE - Too true, but at the moment we don't know for certain what Godzilla's full mental capacity is in this film, so all we have to work with are present facts and speculation based off of said facts. GTBETTA35 seems to believe that Godzilla can't experience a desire to avenge the fallen but he believes Godzilla to be a herald of balance, or something meant to restore order if you will. I just explained to him that you can't have one part of the coin and deny the other. If Godzilla's purpose trully is to restore order, he'll have to undertand the basics of right and wrong, or else why would he want to do such a thing? The only other alternative is that nature made him do it and we both know where that discussion will go...

At the end of it all, we can't say if he can or can't experience these emotions and desires and as such, I would appreciate it if memebers, not you, would refrain from acting like its already confirmed that he can't.

Oh cmon, animals also get angry. But do they get the "I will avenge my people" emotion. It's more "f*ck off and die". 

And ts you can add "I could've used paragraphs so it wouldn't be an eyesore reading this" on the title when you do rename it.

Im just fuelling discussion. Saying your opinion amd getting your jimmies rustled when someone disagrees makes it seem that YOU think that your opinion is final lol.

@COCKZILLA - Impossible. It has already been scientifically proven that animals of basic intellect do not feel anger. They can be aggressive, but anger and aggression are not one and the same.

As for that last bit you mentioned, I don't even. I don't.

As far as Godzilla movies go, the revenge angle has precedent: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah shows that Godzilla takes things personally when family gets harmed.  It also has precedent in the real life animal world: mother elephants are known to go on violent rampages against human villages when their calves get killed by hunters.

As for the earlier misinterpretation of the title...can't you imagine how awesome it would have been if Godzilla actually joined forces with Iron Man, the Hulk and Captain America to take down supervillains?!

@FREE5 - Agreed. And elephants are not animals of mere basic intellect. As for Godzilla being a member of the Avengers, I don't think they would ever need S.H.I.E.L.D. again lol.

I see, I was wrong about the anger part and stand corrected.

But then, by feeling only agression, then it takes out the vengeful part and acting aggressive by instinct am I correct? No "I shall avenge my giganic people" shit.

@COCKZILLA - Thanks for the response. It seems you can be reasoned with, and as such I strongly recommend you reread the last response I gave for GTBETTA35 because I don't feel like explaining it again lol.

And i agree with the elephant thing though. I do not see with this godzilla though. As with their "ancient foes", iy seems they were the cats and dogs of that period. And they do not emotionally hate each other.

@COCKZILLA - Hey, if you're right than you're right. Everything you said could easily be true, but we won't know until we know. I just hope Godzilla has character like the older versions, that way he can be just as intelligent but equally terrifying.

When did I ever say Godzilla couldnt have emotion? I said he couldnt be vengeful. If I were to put a storm or a hurricane or an earthquake in a metaphorical piece, what characteristics would you give it (hint: angry ones)? Being vengeful and angry are two incredibly different things. Many animals have the ability to be angry yet do not have the capability to be vengeful. You're saying he can be vengeful, im saying he cannot be.

And I dont think you understand. Godzilla isnt like "oop, time to restore the balance! Those humans have had it coming!!!!!" He awakens because the MUTOs have awakened. He doesn't know that we have awoken them, nor does he care. He just cares about eliminating his threat. He will restore the balance unknowingly by accomplishing what he needs to finish. Godzilla is a metaphor for nature that still to this day is able to defy us by leaps and bounds no matter how much we try to keep it at bay. Try stopping an earthquake, try plugging up a volcano, try blocking a tsunami. The volcano doesn't know its buring a city, the earthquake doesnt know it's turning a city to rubble, the tsunami doesnt know it's engulfing a city. They just do. Can Godzilla be angry because his foe is among him once again? Yes. He IS angry. VERY angry. Thats the animal in him. Not the metaphor. But will he be vengeful? Not in the slightest.

@GTBETTA35 - I like you're conviction, I do, but I think I JUST stated that it is impossible for creatures of basic intellect to feel anger. That is not my opinion, that is scientific fact. If you want to agrue with that than you are talking to the wrong person. "He will restore the balance unknowingly by accomplishing what he needs to finish." Does Godzilla have something to "finish" GTBETTA? That sounds an awful lot like one's sense of responsibility, another trait unattainable to creatures of lower intelligence. Now if you want to believe that Godzilla can feel anger than by default you also agree that he is now pivy to a complex train of thought now host to a plethora of emotions, and yes, desire. Feel free to take that back if you like by the way, for Godzilla cannot possess higher level emotions like anger but be cut off from everything else that would come with being that intelligent in the first place. Anger requires an emotional component that creatures of basic intelligence lack, so in order to be angry you must also be beyond basic intelligence and thus, beyond basic instinct.