New Replies (Page 219)
I also find this article very well written.
I think it would be interesting to ask the what if question: What if Edwards, for example, had told all 3 stories?
I love this essay/article. Beautifully made and you got your points across.
Neat concept! It's sad that we haven't gotten a modern game like this as there is a TON of possibilities to make an incredible game. I made my own concept a while ago, though that one was more of an unofficial sequel to Godzilla PS4 and not as focused on the Monsterverse specifically.
I don't think the entire Monsterverse is void of themes. I leave that solely on the shoulders of Godzilla vs. Kong. (Although we could place that at Kong: Skull Island's feet as well, if star Samuel L. Jackson's talk show comments are anything to go on.) In fact it's very clear Edwards and Dougherty were aiming to do something with their movies.
Edwards even said, "Hopefully, you can watch this film and enjoy it as entertainment, but I personally like science fiction and fantasy when it has a little meaning behind it." [Source] And the fandom conveniently let Dougherty get away with gatekeeping when he said, "It wouldn't be a true Godzilla film if you didn't touch upon those things, otherwise you're just making a big dumb monster movie. There has to be a sprinkle of it, otherwise you're not being faithful to the original intent of the series. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a true Godzilla fan." [Source]
The intent is certainly there, and I think the themes are there, but they are woefully problematic. In the case of Godzilla '14 and Godzilla: King of the Monsters, we have a character IP based on very specific Japanese trauma clashing with the sensibilities of a film industry based in a leading nuclear superpower.
I'll stick with the assessment that Godzilla '14 is, thusfar, the best American made Godzilla film and that it runs with that honor very far away from the other movies. But even it is problematic. Suddenly, Castle Bravo isn't the reason Godzilla wakes up, but an American military reaction to killing a potential threat. It's interesting that both the 2014 movie and 1998 movie either shift blame or intent when considering nuclear testing. In 1998 it's the French military's fault. In 2014, America was trying to save the world under the guise of nuclear tests.
The reason I take issue with this is because, like it or not, Godzilla is residual scar tissue of another country caused by America. The entire reason the character exists was to create an outlet for a people to process their fears, phobias and grief as a nation. So when the country that caused the grief takes that outlet and puts to screen a Japanese man, who lost his father to Nagasaki's bombing, willfully detonating a nuclear weapon to save the world, killing himself in the process, I'm left in complete shock at the tone deafness it took to execute it.
A country, that left another country scared from nuclear bombing (and by extension, testing), literally took the mascot of their atomic-phobia and turned it into a nuclear, superpower poster boy. That is a hard pill to swallow.
But let's ignore the bomb for a moment. Godzilla has been adapted to represent the transition of Japan into capitalism - the marketing that comes with it - the deconstruction of nuclear families - the Cold War - violent attacks on women - nationalism - Japan's pollution issue of the 1970s - the post-war world, etc. To quote Matt Frank, "the specifics of Godzilla’s creation and narrative relevance have been honed and modified and pushed by over half a century’s worth of cultural evolution, modification, and revolution unique to Japan. That’s why Japanese Godzilla movies hit differently, even when they struggle themselves, compared to the US-made Godzilla movies." [source]
So when Dougherty tries to make King of the Monsters about environmentalism, he's somewhat on the right track. But then he botches it with ideas of "Titans" triggering ecological growth via radiation--The very thing that poisoned and killed countless in the fiction of Godzilla and the reality that inspired it. Never mind the fact Dougherty also named an American military base Castle Bravo, an event that poisoned Japanese fisherman, killing one, and putting irradiated tuna on the market--All the fault of... American military.
The problem isn't how Godzilla does or does not represent aspects related to nuclear proliferation. The problem is that it spring boarded the character to represent so many half-century, post-war themes that he may be too... well... Japanese for other countries to nail.
Does this mean I think only the Japanese can do Godzilla right? No, I think some have done a pretty solid job in certain comics, particularly "The Half-Century War", "Legends" and aspects of "Rulers of Earth." I also think there have been some outstanding stories told by Hollywood in the genre: Cloverfield, Pacific Rim, Colossal--But I also think we have to consider the possibility that storytellers outside of Japan might have a harder time understanding the character as it clashes with American commercialism. Remember, this is the country where radioactive spiders give people super powers. In Japan, that concept would've transformed someone into an atomic terror.
As for assigning what each monster may or may not represent, I actually applaud the effort, but find that there's some projecting there. Which is fine. Lord knows many historians, including myself, have looked very deeply into these films. However, my issue there is that each of these monsters generally come from the "Hollow Earth" making it a catchall origin. Quite frankly, I think giving Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra and Kong identical origins limits what the monsters say about us. And that has always been a major component of these movies.
Looking at such a misfire, I suppose mindless, dumb fun is the best Godzilla for Hollywood. Nothing in Godzilla vs. Kong represents why I personally fell in love with the franchise, but I concede it's connecting with people better than something with more substance. I just hope it doesn't set a precedence for the genre.
This article is beautiful
It’s okie, I was just hoping for an opportunity to rant.
"Also before I clicked I was really hoping u were talking about the Music"
sorry for the confusion, I couldn't think of another title...
In a way, Yes,
This was a topic I feel needed some more attention, I had a lot to talk about and felt that there was too much to put in a single comment, so I thought that creating a new topic/discussion would be a better option.
Also, I like these ideas, but where are these themes applicable? And don’t Ghidorah and MechaG represent the same thing?
Also before I clicked I was really hoping u were talking about the Music
This was a response to comparisons of All Monsters Attack and GVK, isn’t it?
Is This Like All Real Or Is This Just Another Hoax Just To Think Others Into Believing It's Real?
I thought he kind of had a therapsid/synapsid look to him
Unpopular opinion, but I REALLY liked City on the Edge of Battle. Unlike most, I thought the Mechagodzilla City was really creative and the twist with the bilsaludos(sorry if I spelt it wrong) gave that evil Godzilla alien vibe from the showa era.
Hmmm, while I don't particularly like any of the designs, the Delgadosaurus looks like it would the most likely to appear in the monsterverse.
I kind of wish we got to see this thing fight Kong. It would have been really cool!
Love Scylla, she looks very Lovecraftian. :)
Baragon def would be a pre mammal of some sort. It has a very..... doglike(?) Face and big ears that aren't really seen in many, if any, reptiles.
well going off real world scientific evidence then yes, the earliest evidence of dinosauromorph is the Early Triassic but who knows maybe there may have been primitive dinosauromorphs in the permian at least in the monsterverse.
PS...
Dinosaurs are a type of dinosauromorph but not all dinosauromorphs were dinosaurs if you know what I mean.
how can you mistake hong kong for tokyo its explicitly mentioned that it hong kong
I confused what does send for audio description English mean?
for all Netflix users please before the show come sout in usa
Can you guys sebd request for audio description in english for Godzilla sigular point
I said there’s evidence against edwards. Godzilla is stated to have lived way before the dinosaurs.
I think he said in an interview after Godzilla 2014 was released? I don't remember the source
where the evidence that proves edwards?
@Xeno
I don’t believe that, even though edwards said so. There’s too much evidence against that
Well technically MV Godzilla himself is a Dinosauromorph, so maybe Barugon could be one or a synapsid
What about rodan? So it wasn't flying reptile like Pterodan or something that evovled huge but lack of fire power
SasquaDash,
SarcasticGoji is spot on. Politics are only one facet of meaning a story can have. Even my examples with All Monsters Attack weren't political, not directly anyway. But they were certainly social. I'm sure if we dig far enough we can find some thread of importance Godzilla vs. Kong may or may not be trying to say. But that wasn't the point of the movie--theme wasn't the goal. The point was utter, mindless escapism.
Even if the movie was, "focused more on the mythology of it's world, linking it to real life legends," (and even that is suspect - what "real life legends," specifically?) the question is to what end? What does it all mean? What is it trying to say? Why is it relevant? And why should we care? While I certainly enjoyed the visual exploration of the Hollow Earth, it doesn't ring with any importance outside of expanding a world that may or may not continue.
At this point in the franchise, I simply need more and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more when films made on a budget of less the $1 million have found ways to say important things through neutered resources and absurd mandates. And frankly, for a long, long, exhausting list of reasons, I don't think that kind of exploration fits the Hollywood blockbuster vernacular very well.
They came from the hollow earth so they wouldn’t have evolved from dinos. I’m pretty sure baragon has a horn lazer.
I don’t know, that’s a question for a movie.
But how titans came exactly?
Like how they own thing exactly
if came from hallow earth or something else what made them huge and powerful with range attacks
Titans didn’t evolve from dinos, they’re there own thing
what???? that not what i asked at all
I think it’d be another Titan that attacks mainly through meelee
I mean like if Baragon does exist in MonsterVerse
what type of dinsoaur had evovled into Baragon, to gain size, shape and powers
I don’t agree... but okie.
Since the moon was destroyed in "Gorath", I slotted DaM as "before 1979". We need the moon for DaM and in my version it just says DaM takes place at the end of the century. I took as few liberties as possible...
