New Replies (Page 636)
Hey, quick question. Can you please put the link to the preview forum for this one? I forgot which monsters are supposed to appear here (mainly if the Godzilla in this story is the Heisei Godzilla or the Legendary Godzilla).
^ Good point, but you all seem to forget that there are aliens in the Godzilla: Planet of the Monsters anime trilogy. Now, I'm not saying that Legendary should use these or just have rip-offs of these. What I'm saying is that that might be the most modern you could get humanoid aliens (although the Xilliens from Final Wars still look cool to me, even if it's been 14 years). And btw, when I was saying "realism", I meant "believability" (or something similar).
^but clearly and obviously it does!
"But regardless of country of origin, a punk rock band is still a punk rock band."
I wont get into the music example, because this is not a forum for music and you clearly don't understand punk music well enough for me to tell you a thousand reasons why you are wrong. I don't want to embarrass you here and its not my intention to.
It almost is a requirement for a kaiju to be from one country and history and background.
Im sorry but there is nothing you can say that can make Gorgo, Reptillicus and other monsters a kaiju. By your definition of a kaiju, then the Iron Giant is a Kaiju. Right? He is tall, a giant robot from outer space. He must be a Kaiju.
the same must go for The Collosal Man, Smaug from the Hobbit, The giant teenagers from Village of the Giants? Heck even Clownzilla from Killer Clowns from Outer Space must be a Kaiju by your definition. There is a reason why kaiju are kaiju. We cant call everything the same thing.
,':l
But regardless of country of origin, a punk rock band is still a punk rock band.
I'm not saying all kaiju are the same; I'm saying I don't think specifically being from Japan is the only requirement that can't be overlooked. It just leaves too many monsters that are clearly kaiju (Gorgo, Reptillicus, Pulgasari, etc.) in the dust.
to bring up another point in classifying genres.
In talking about music genres, I wouldn't put punk bands like Green Day or The Misfits in the same genre. Sure they are both punk bands but they are completely different in style and play. To say they are the same disrespects the originality and art of the music they are playing. Same goes for movie monsters. They are all movie monsters, but to say they are all the same sounds silly.
This is a very deep conversation on kaiju's and giant monsters. I love this place.
I think its important to keep the respect intact when referring to a genre in particular. These monsters all have a rich history and background that enable us to look back and admire the technical achievements these movie monsters all went through in order to bring us all entertainment and joy.
There is no reason to combine all the movie monsters into one lump category. That's not right, or fair. Monsters from the states don't have a authentic category name but it never needed one. Giant Monster Movies sound just great in my ears as a Kaiju movie does.
If we were to call the 1933 King Kong a kaiju, that takes away the originality of the movie and to the creators and special fx crew that sweated and bleed for this movie to come into light. The people behind King Kong were not trying to make a kaiju movie. They were making an action/adventure story about a giant monster and the complexity behind Kong himself.
Its important to remember these monsters for what they where represented for. If you sum them all into one name and category it takes away the identity of the creation and the reason for it and negates the purpose now.
For example, Rampage is not a kaiju movie. Rampage is cashing in on the Giant Monster Movie surge that's happening here in the states and along with the video game movie surge. Its killing 2 properties in one and now is the time to do it. It doesn't have the inspiration that say Godzilla or Kong has behind them. The monsters in that movie are imitations of other movie monsters that inspired them in the first place. To call them kaijus are silly and misrepresented. You wouldn't call a battery operated car toy for children an automobile? Would you?
GMAN2887 - Wait! I believe I understand what you are saying! You are speaking upon the maintenance of purity within the Kaiju genre as a whole in preference to "bastardization" through constant offshoots, yes? :)
Something Real,
I don't think celebrating other cultures' creations and said creations being identical are mutually the same. The bars devoted to dressing up like cowboys is an interesting aspect to bring up, but lets be perfectly honest, are they actually cowboys? Of course not. It's sort of like how the monsters in Pacific Rim are called kaiju in-universe, but not really kaiju by trade.
The criteria as dictated by the genre is that kaiju, or more accurately daikaiju, are Japanese giant monsters. Any other criteria is sort of a headcanon/fan made stipulations created only to muddle the entire definition. When everyone has their own definition as to what it is then it has no meaning. There's point in using the word.
Does that mean we're not sharing culture and ideas? Of course not. Clover, MUTO and the "kaiju" in Pacific Rim are clearly inspired on kaiju of Japanese cinema. It doesn't make them kaiju, but it certainly lives up to the idea of sharing ideas.
GMAN2887 - I can certainly see your points with regards to Kaiju being Japanese. They gave this wonderful creation! However, Can we not share? The Japanese have large bars devoted to dressing up - and acting like - American cowboys. I do not see it as something as inflammatory as "cultural appropriation". I see it as sharing culture and ideas. Can we not create things to honor and celebrate the creations of others? :)
"My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy."
While Toho is very protective of their Godzilla property, I'm not sure I can get behind that. Toho only has two trademarks for MechaGodzilla, "MechaGodzilla" and "Super MechaGodzilla"--The former is used for 1974, 75, 93 (without Garuda), 02 & 03. Haven't checked on '18 yet. I don't think they distinguish the rights by incarnation.
That being said, Toho allegedly told both Sony and Legendary that their Godzilla designs couldn't be a carbon copy of past Toho Godzilla designs. (The latter of which supposedly had major restrictions.) I can see Toho mandating a new design for some strange merchandising purpose.
I am positive the current Hollywood trope would to make the aliens look nothing like its earlier Japanese toho counter parts. They will either look very human or like the ones from independence day or something like that. But they wont share any of the wardrobe that the Xillians or Kilaaks or the Simian black hole planet share. That trend is outdated by Hollywood standards. Im sure if there were to be aliens introduced they would not share anything that resembles or similar to the classic toho style of aliens. Unfortunately I might add.
Legendary doesn't have any rights to the aliens from Toho that I am aware of. So Im sure if there is another movie after GVK featuring aliens, they wont be anything of resemblance to our favorite alien foes of the classic movies.
Also instead of monarch getting the help of getting aliens could be changed into the military getting the help from aliens. I could see that happening way more than monarch. The question is if the aliens are going to reveal themselves to world and help earth or stay secret and secretly helping the military with MechaGodzilla.
Also if aliens are going to be introduced into the monsterverse, I want them to be classic Godzilla aliens like the xilliens, the kilaakians or the black hole planet 3 aliens.
^I must admit, even though I doubt that scenario would happen here, that would be awesome! I could see a Gigan MUTO. if I were a comic book writer I would take that idea and run with it.
There are still MUTO body parts lying around after the fight. What will become of them? That is if we are going off the same idea of a Kiryu narrative.
This all really reminds me of “invasion of Astro monster” with aliens being on earth the whole time and working with humans but eventually turning on them and using their monsters against them. Maybe the aliens could take the bodies of King Ghidorah and the male muto into space and turning them into cyborgs as well. King Ghidorah could become Mecha-king ghidorah and the male muto could become GIGAN.
just think about that. Gigan and the male muto have a lot of similarities, for example : the big red eye, they can both fly, hook like hands and a detail nobody thought about “the place were the muto got stabbed”. The place were the male muto got stabbed was in his chest leaving space for the saw in gigans stomach.
mind blown!!!
It would be interesting if aliens have been frozen along with King Ghidorah, and the aliens become unfrozen along with Ghidorah. Maybe the aliens are in some kind of hibernation chamber in a space craft near the monster and wakes up thanks to Monarch. The aliens maybe wanted to try and stop Ghidorah and crashed along the monster.
Then thanks to the alien engineering the aliens help Monarch create a super monster robot to combat Godzilla. Thus the creation of Mechagodzilla. That would be interesting. Just throwing out ideas. I just cant see Monarch(who have been struggling to stay afloat as an organization all these years) all of a sudden have the influence and funds to just say "ok, our solution involves a giant robot fighting Godzilla" and our government just says "you had me at giant robot, lets do it!"
It seems to me that even though Monarch performs great cover ups and somewhat secret gov't support, that they don't have much say over what happens to the MUTO's once they wreck havoc. In 2014 they lost command on how to deal with the male MUTO once the monster escaped their clutches. The military took over operations right away and had Dr. Serizawa and company along as advisers. Even that had limitations on Dr. Serizawa's opinion on the matter of using a nuclear bomb to both attract and destroy all the monsters. His opinion was ignored.
Now one might argue that since the attack in 2014, Monarch might gain more influence over MUTO related decisions, but Monarch is led by scientists' not the military. So I highly doubt that Monarch might have much traction and resources to influence anybody on building a giant fighting robotic Godzilla over 350ft high. Unless with the help of extraterrestrial beings that can make there space craft into some kind of makeshift mechagodzilla. I know it seems contrary to my point but that what Monarch seems to me.
To further prove my point, Monarch didn't have much rank in the decision to fight against Kong back in the 70s. Monarch seemed to be more of a joke.
Just saying for the sake of this conversation of possibly having Mechagodzilla in this Monsterverse, aliens seem more plausible for the creation of Mechagodzilla more than Monarch gaining any support to build a giant robot.
^thank you. not bad for a 3 year old haha. I admit I helped along with my wife. next year we are going to include Kong and some buildings. This will be our Easter tradition to have Peeps running or dying from a giant monster or 2.
I can totally agree on that. Realism is not the problem here. Obviously there are borders to realism, but it is more about the way you present/execute it. Marvel and dc both have things that are unrealistic (for example groot or superman) and it is working for them (for marvel at least). Also sometimes you have to throw realism out of the window to make a good/fun movie. Wouldn’t be much of a movie if Godzilla collapsed and died ones he came on land even though that would be “realistic” now would it.
Also that idea of the Heisei era MechaGodzilla could also work.
Ps.
I recently had the idea for Mechagodzilla to be build by humans and aliens. I know that they would have to introduce alien life into the monsterverse for that to happen but I think it could work. Maybe monarch is being helped by aliens without them knowing. after Mechagodzilla (MechaGodzilla would be controlled by humans at this point) has fought Godzilla (maybe Mechagodzilla even wins), MechaGodzilla gets taken over by the aliens and gets used as an alien weapon. This way we would have both origins of Mechagodzilla in one.
Looks nice.
Even though my earliest memory of Godzila was the 1998 film (even though I didn't know what Godzilla even was, or what the movie was even about [to me, it was just a giant dinosaur running around and destroying buildings]), what made me a Godzilla fan was one of two things: 1) the Fiat commercial promoting Godzilla 2014 (you know, the one where he eats the cars), and 2) watching Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster at camp (and I especially loved the part where he cannonballs into the ocean before the island exploded). Other than that, it was actually the trailers for Godzilla 2014 and the two things I mentioned above that made me like Godzilla (especially Zilla's design and the Baby Zilla's design as well, since I was more of a dinosaur fan at the time when I saw it).
The movie takes place in 2045 so who knows what design has MechaGodzilla gone through(Plz forgive me if my English is sucky).
That is a great question to bring up. I like to think that Warner Bros. is testing the waters with this new MechaGodzilla and seeing what audiences think. If people like it, they can work it into future Monsterverse films. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part, but damn I'd love it.
My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy. But then again Gman you might be right about them just pushing the design of 2014 down our throats.
Surely they had the rights secured. I think Spielberg would try and use something different like Godzilla himself or Gypsy Danger rather than a “mecha saurus” I actually thought it was cool how they made him look more like a machine rather than a tin can copy of Godzilla. And as far as him looking like a dinosaur, I just don’t see it.
MechaGodzilla's design does beg the question, "why?" I liked the design okay and all, but all the other characters/pop culture references were really spot on--Identical to one prior interpretation or another. It's interesting that MechaGodzilla was literally the only character that had a brand new design. Why?
Did Toho say it couldn't look like previous iterations? Had WB not secured the rights just yet so they made it look a little more like a "Mecha-saurus" until the license was secured? Did WB just want to make it look more like the 2014 design to push their own movie(s)? I'd love to know the background on that one.
I don't think the license extends to MonsterVerse, could be wrong.
The real question is.... What did Godzilla leave The Easter Bunny? Devastation! 
Im sure that you all have seen a similar picture of this circulating the web. My 3 year old daughter saw it and said to us "I want to do this for Easter!". Of course we said yes to this. We all stayed up the night before Easter and recreated the picture but with our own touches on it. We all decided we will make this our Easter tradition but add new monters to it every year.
There's that word again. "Realism". We need to stop using that word to predict anything about the Monsterverse here. Nothing about Godzilla, King Ghidorah, or any other MUTO in this universe are never going to fit into any kind "realism" here. The object here is "Believable". Godzilla and the MUTO's are "Believable" in this monstervese, they are not anywhere near "realism". Throw away any part of that thought process out the window if you want to enjoy these films. Because if you want to use realism as a point of conversation then I can point to any University on this planet and the professors there will tell you that none of the monsters in this films will be in the same textbook for realism.
Aliens could be possible for the reasoning behind both King Ghidorah or any kind of Mechagodzilla that could be fathomed for this movie universe. Its a far fetched one I admit, but when you add King Ghidorah to the mix(mind you a 3 HEADED MONSTER with 2 TAILS and 0 ARMS), aliens cant be far from context now.
^haha! I agree! They better not share a mother with the same name!
However if a team up does happen, I will feel a bit empty inside. Like we were all cheated out of a half century of waiting for a rematch between the 2 and got a half ass story like that.
I think the MUTO's are just that, "MUTO's" in the lengendary Monsterverse. To me, anything in this Monsterverse is a MUTO just like the "Kaiju" are Kaiju in Pacific Rim. Godzilla, Kong, The Skullcrawlers, the MUTO's are all MUTO's.
What does TOHO classify them as? That would be an answer that would possibly clear things up.
Like I said, Japanese monsters are Kaiju. MUTO's are not. Plain and simple to me.
On the argument of the design of the MUTO's. Like Gman said. Uninspired and another Hollywood Generic monster. They are unique to the Godzilla world for him to fight. But they are all too forgotten compared to the other kaiju and monster designs in any Godzilla universe or cannon. Hell, I think anything in the Hanna Barbara Godzilla cartoon are better than the MUTO's in 2014(here come the hate replies)! I feel like Hollywoods strange infatuation with this design is saturating other great ideas and products that could come out and inspire great giant monster movies here in the states.
Cloverfield is my only exception to the generalization of these movies. not so much the design but by the way it was shot and marketed. that was a great monster movie I don't care what anyone has to say about the movie. Generic design or not it was a great monster.
on the topic of Ready Player One, I cant wait to see this movie! Mechagodzilla sounds amazing! I really do hope the licensing in this movie allows WB to adhere to the monsterverse and allow MechaG fight!
I wouldn't mind after GVK that Kong fights MechaG in another movie. That would be interesting, Kong vs Mechagodzilla 2021! That would be so cool to me. Just saying.
^
Why not mix both? Like, have Monarch use the Godzilla skeleton and reuse MKG's parts to make MV MechaGodzilla? It just sounds interesting to me.
^
Better, hopefully.
Probably left him a basket of Zilla eggs (to eat), Rodan eggs (also to eat), Mothra eggs (also to eat), and maybe a Godzillasaurus egg in the middle (as an opportunity to raise a successor to the King of the Monsters).
Isn't that going away from the realism of the Monstervers, though? Also, while it is till cool to see something about Mechagodzlla in the Monsterverse and using the Kiryu version as an example, I honestly see it more like this: just like in the Heisei Era, assuming it isn't too beat up, Monarch and the military salvage King Ghidorah's body, "cyborgize" him (not sure what the actual term is), basically create Mecha-King Ghidorah, he gets defeated by Godzilla, the salvage whatever they have of Mecha-King Ghidorah, and create something similar to Mechagodzilla II from the Heisei Era, and there you go,Mechagodzilla in the Mosterverse. Love the Kiryu idea, but the "King Ghidorah - Mecha-King Ghidorah - Mechagodzilla" idea seems more likely considering the direction they are going for currently in the Monsterverse.
That is not King Ghidorah. There is an entire article on this website that explains this.
Again, like I said before, it could be like the Monsterverse's version of Batman v. Superman.
^
Never thought I'd see a King Ghidorah with three "eyes" on each head. It just screams either "Illuminati Confirmed" or "It is a sign of the Devil". Awesome, but unsettling.
@Patzilla Same here.
As far as the movie goes, I thought it was incredibly epic.
Kaiju and Giant Monsters:
Kong: The racing scene with Kong was great. The design looked like the 1933 original, only super-sized. A little upset he didn’t make it to the final battle with Mecha-G, hope WB is saving that for Godzilla vs Kong.
Tyrannosaurus Rex: In the same freaking race we get The T-Rex from JP. Which made a brief, but awesome cameo, in which it smashed some cars and retained its iconic roar.
The Iron Giant: Man The Iron Giant is one tough SOB in this. He takes an ass beating from MechaGodzilla and somehow still survives. I wouldn’t consider him a Kaiju however, he’s a “mech” or simply a robot.
Gundam: I’ve never seen Gundam before, but the design of it/him gave me an Optimus Prime/Power Rangers Vibe. 2 things I love very much, so it was awesome. It was too bad his character ran out of “morphin time”, he was actually putting a hurt on Mecha-G at that point.
***MechaGodzilla***
WOW. Just Wow. He was definitely based off 2014’s design, having the exact same spikes and even Atomic Breath(almost identical)
It was cool having a villain pilot MechaGodzila, something we’ve never seen before. The use of the Godzilla theme was awesome. The Finger Missiles were bad ass and reminded me of the OG MechaG. The overall design gets a 10/10 from me just for the fact it stands on its own as a MechaG design and doesn’t make me think,”oh it’s kiryu” or any other old MG. Wonder if neca or shma will be making a figure??
*Speculation Time* can’t leave here without stirring up the pot just a little more.
Now that we know Warner Bros has the rights to MechaG, It would look like MechaG is the front running villain for Godzilla vs. Kong, if they intend to have a villain at all. Chances are good that we will see MG in the future, especially with him being introduced to the general public here it makes him very relevant now. Maybe we’ll get more Ifukube’s scores as well. Let’s all hope so at least
I’m with the Jurassic Bootleg. If it’s over 100 feet tall I’m calling it a Kaiju. I think the word has evolved past just Japanese monsters, especially with the USA making most of the kaiju films right now. Plus, Kaiju is only 2 syllables vs. giant monster, which is 4
My question in all this is, where do the MUTO's stand as monsters that appeared in a Godzilla film? Would they be considered in the larger pantheon of kaiju that have appeared in the franchise, or is it a sort of sub-category? "Toho Kaiju / Literally everything else outside of Japan."
I've seen plenty of YouTube videos that are "Top Ten Kaiju" "Strongest to Weakest Kaiju" what have you that include the MUTO's. Are they all inherently wrong for including them, or does the fact they are featured in a Godzilla film, albeit an American production make a sort of bridge between "kaiju" being a Japanese word that describes a very specific type of monster and all other monsters outside of the country?
