New Replies (Page 635)

Yes I would but it, but for now my money is staying in my wallet

small update

I have tried to make a possible design for the male Muto as Gigan with the upgrades I named in the forum. I am not very good at designing digitally myself, but this is the best I could do. What do you guys think?

Sorry I am late to this party. I missed all the discussions except the Kaiju thing, which refers to Japanese monsters and not those outside.

Okay, when that Godzilla theme hit with Mechagodzilla it was crazy how great it worked. I am looking forward to whenever this comes out on whatever streaming service so I can fast forward to that part and hear/see it again.

whether or not Monarch puts each MUTO in its own class of MUTO, then we can discuss this in a different light. Godzilla in 2014 was given a name back in 1954 in order to give it a name. Name and classification are different. Godzilla is its name, MUTO is its classification. Kong was given his name by the tribe he shared an island with. He too shares in the class MUTO.

MUTO-Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organism. Godzilla fits the description. In Kong: Skull Island, Monarch puts all those creatures on skull island under the class of MUTO. Kong and Godzilla both fit the bill.

Is Godzilla ever actually referred to as a “MUTO?” As far as I remember, the 2 bug creatures were called MUTOs, and Godzilla was simply called Godzilla. They even refer to him as a God at one point. He’s Godzilla and he’s a Kaiju, Japanese or American. I think Pacific Rim bridged the Kaiju gap back in 2013 tbh

Ohhh Ok, in universe that's fine. I see what you mean by that. Within the Monsterverse, Godzilla is a MUTO with the given name of Godzilla. You're referring to Godzilla in that universe by the way it is classified in that universe.

When you put it like that I can agree with it.

 Can't wait. Also, thanks for the link.

^well that would possibly solve the issue of height. The point is that the origin of Gigan would be from the male MUTO from G14. He is still intact and the wounds on his body would go great with the idea of a Gigan hybrid. If we just through in any other different kind of MUTO, it might not captivate us as much.

Sorry but I stand by my statement. Godzilla 2014 is no less "Godzilla" than any other rendition(98 excluded), but G14 is not technically a Kaiju. G14 is a MUTO in the universe.

Just like King Kong moves from classification to another in the monster world from kaiju to MUTO to giant monster, respectively. Godzilla also shares the privilege of nomad between monster universes.

Its not that I don't think less of G14 for it. Its just the way it goes. He still is Godzilla no matter what country makes a movie about him(once again excluding 98 zilla). Its like when an athlete goes and plays for another team. They are still the same athlete, just playing for a different team and city.

Monsters like Frankenstein, King Kong, The Wolfman(from that fan film made Godzilla vs The Wolfman), Zilla, and Godzilla all can be in or around this category when adapted to other films. But there is only  one requirement for one monster to be part of the kaiju club. It must be from japan in origin(period). G14 is not from Japan. made here in the good ol' USA.

I know I am not at any authority here to make this fact or not. But don't piss in my ear and tell me its raining.

Just simply make Gigan a larger subspecies of MUTO that was turned into a cyborg.

That is truly one of the biggest (no pun intended) problems for this idea to work. Just like I said, I think they could use the female muto too seeing as she is about 300 ft/90 meters tall. They could also be a bit more Frankenstein and use different body parts from both muto. That’s just a wild guess though.

also the height might change seeing as I want gigan to stand upright.

This is a fun idea, my only concern would be that this version of Gigan would be super small compared to Godzilla and crew.

Isnt the male MUTO around 250ft tall? Compared to Godzilla at 350ft tall? Despite the upgrades I still wouldn't see this Gigan much of a threat to a monster towering over them. But still wouldn't mind this idea of Gigan forming. Cool idea.

I like it. Aside from a couple of nitpicks (make the spines a little smaller and the head slightly larger), I like it better than a lot of Godzilla designs, including the Legendary and Shin designs.

I can certainly see why people would want to differentiate between kaiju as purely Japanese and giant monsters from other countries. I agree to certain extent since it is a genre that was more or less created by Toho and other Japanese studios. Personally, I see it as a reference to how much of these films were produced as more of an art form than just plain monster movies.

The only part of this that really does bug me is this sort of disregard for the Monsterverse Godzilla. With Zilla, I understand, Sony/TriStar/Roland Emmerich abused the property to such a degree that it didn't deserve the monkier. But now Zilla is owned by Toho, so does that mean it qualifies more as a kaiju than the Monsterverse Godzilla? That just doesn't sit right with me. Yes it's an American production, but it's an American production of THE kaiju Godzilla. Say what you will about the movie, I have no specific love for it myself, but it got Godzilla right at least. If it's not a kaiju, then why the hell should we care?

Why all this discussion and debate and hype for 2019 if it's excluded from the club because it's produced in America? Plus, Legendary is owned by Wanda, so in a technicality it's an Asian produced monster movie (Well the sequels anyway). It's not like an American studio would hand Toho $160 million to make a Godzilla movie so it could remain "pure", no they can just make it themselves.

Yes, probably the best thing to come out of the Monsterverse is Toho making Godzilla films again, but that doesn't make the Monsterverse suddenly irrelevant. If all it's going to be good for is Toho making more domestic Godzilla films, then the Monsterverse should end if the fan base isn't going to give the movies their proper due.

I'm personally ecstatic that we have two concurrent runs of Godzilla series. Never in a thousand years would I have expected what we're seeing today. It's just disappointing that there's this running theme that the American films are fun little distractions and don't really matter, when let's be honest, Godzilla 2014 brought us here today. There's no guarantee that Shin, the anime trilogy or any future films would've happened without 2014. 

Oy vey this thread sure did explode since the last time I was on. O-o

I'll try my best here.

"there are sooooo many different styles and genres of punk music that you just cant clump them up into the same thing."

Okay great. But regardless of where that style comes from, it's still a genre of punk music. That's my point here. A punk rock band from England is still a punk rock band, and a punk rock band from America is still a punk rock band.

I never said my system applies to anyone else. I repeat my earlier point: everyone has a different definition of what a Kaiju is; it's not universal in the least. The only "universal" definition of a kaiju is the original one: "strange beast". And we all know how vague that is. As for the modern interpretation, I have mine, you have yours, other people have theirs.

"then I guess Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquers The World isn't a Kaiju nor are the Gargantua's. "

Under my little system, they are kaiju. Frankenstein from FCTW and The Gargantuas are both from Japan: Golden snitch rule; they're kaiju. Not to mention they also fit #2, as they all have different personalities other than "must stomp; Rawr!", so they also hit the 2/3 system as well. Gargantuas hit all 3; there's no other creature that looks like a Gargantua.

" I'm trying to enlighten you.   "

,':l

I'll just copy and paste what you said to me in response to that: "Your requirements are just that, YOUR REQUIREMENTS"

"and polls only show number of opinions. "

Yes, but it would show what people generally believe. Again, the only universal definition of a kaiju is the original one; the modern one is way more interpretive. I must stress though, if we have a poll, we must make it unbiased. A simple yes or no to "Is ______ a kaiju?"; that's all you need.

"I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju."

You lost me. XD

Godzilla is Godzilla, and Godzilla is a kaiju; he's the dude that modernly defined it. You may not like the movie; that's fine. But it's so obviously Godzilla, and when you have Godzilla, you have a kaiju.

You crossed the Rubicon as far as I'm concerned. Applause for your bravery.

^oh no! Did I just put a huge target on my back!? I mean...until now I thought everyone was in agreement with that opinion.  I guess I just dug my own grave with that statement. 

Well I guess let the debate begin. I’m glad someone here has my back. Haha!

"I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju. He is in a class of M.U.T.O."

Well riggzamortis86, you finally crossed into the territory I didn't want to break due to all the rapid fans against us. Good on you. XD

I agree though.

^

http://www.godzilla-movies.com/topic/47426

I'm not sure why most of the pictures are screwed up. But for Godzilla it's the designs and abilities of KiryuGoji, but I upped the size to 100 meters.

Another new chapter. Final battle is starting up (plus a great reference at the end). A new topic will probably be made for the last chapters because topics can only be so long.

and polls only show number of opinions. People everywhere can vote on 2+2 being 5. It doesn't mean its true.

I personally don't consider Godzilla 2014 a kaiju. He is in a class of M.U.T.O.

 No im not saying just because punk are different im trying to say there are different GENRE's of punk. If you listen to Green Day then go listen to The Misfits, you can clearly hear a difference between the 2 punk bands right? That's my point here. Im saying that giant monsters are not all the same thing. They are all part of different genres and categories of movie monsters. That is what Im trying to say. Punk Rock has many genres. They are all not the same kind of music get it? Gorgo and Godzilla are monsters right? but one is a Kaiju and one isn't. Get it? It was a poor choice on my part to try and use music as an example on trying to explain differences on movie monsters. That is my fault.

^With your punk rock logic, it’d be like saying Tupac is a rapper and Lil Wayne isn’t, just because they have different styles. Makes no sense mate.

Would you guys call Godzilla 2014 a kaiju?

someone do a poll on this shi as welll

Hey, can someone please check this article: Kong has met his match before ever meeting Godzilla...? I think it either doesn't work at all or it just doesn't work for me. I can't see this on my screen, and I think it is broken.

^

You've got a good point. Not even the hint of a teaser trailer, which is really shocking to me. It's almost like they want this to be a Direct-to-DVD sequel like they did with Disney movies back in the early-mid 2000s. But I hope this isn't what they're planning.

" If you think that the people here, including me, "don't understand punk music well enough" for that sort of thing, then why did you bring it up?"

"My point was that a punk rock band that originates in England is as much punk rock as a punk rock band that originates from America. They're both punk rock. It's not exclusive to America or any other country alone."

I didn't say anyone here doesn't understand punk, Im saying YOU clearly don't understand what Im trying to illustrate that there are sooooo many different styles and genres of punk music that you just cant clump them up into the same thing. Nazi punk music is way different that say Ska Punk. Get it?" One is not like the other. But share in a similar style.

I have a feeling your splitting hairs here to prove an invalid point. Your 2/3 system is heavily flawed and I feel like Im wasting my time here if your going to use a system that doesn't apply here. Your requirements are just that, YOUR REQUIREMENTS and they should not apply to the universal definition here. No one else uses this system you pulled out of the air here.  That's why things don't add up to you here. You developed a flawed system that doesn't apply to anything else here. To consider Giant Men not Kaiju then I guess Frankenstein from Frankenstein Conquers The World isn't a Kaiju nor are the Gargantua's. Your splitting things you obviously don't understand or get.

I don't have to keep hitting my head against a wall here to prove what many know is true. Your lack of understanding here is too deep for one such as myself to try and pull you out of. If you must see your way of seeing many monsters as one thing in order to still enjoy them then who am I to stop you from that. I'm trying to enlighten you.   

Is it just me or is anyone else confused by how we haven't gotten a trailer yet? The movie comes out in a little over a month and we still haven't seen any footage.

Now wait just a minute there. You're the one to bring up the punk rock example. If you think that the people here, including me, "don't understand punk music well enough" for that sort of thing, then why did you bring it up?

My point was that a punk rock band that originates in England is as much punk rock as a punk rock band that originates from America. They're both punk rock. It's not exclusive to America or any other country alone.

"By your definition of a kaiju, then the Iron Giant is a Kaiju.Right? He is tall, a giant robot from outer space. He must be a Kaiju.  "

Uh, no. Those weren't my requirements. My kaiju definition was the 2/3 system. Regardless, robots are different to me. In all actuality, I  find a hard time calling MechaGodzilla a kaiju, as he's really a Mecha if we want to be technical about these things. I, like most people here, just refer to him with all the other kaiju in the Godzilla series to keep things simple. But again, if we want to be technical now, MechaG's more of a Mecha than a Kaiju; same goes for Jet Jaguar and Moguera. Is Iron Giant a Mecha too? Dunno honestly; haven't come up with a system of identifying Mechas. There's waaaaay more giant robots out there than giant monsters.

Anyways:

The Colossal Man? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant man"

Smaug? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant wyvern-dragon" And before you say, "King Ghidorah", I say 3 heads, 2 tails, golden armor, and gravity beams. Smaug's just a big wyvern; that's it.

Teenage Giants? Nope; doesn't pass #3: "Giant men"

Clownzilla? Humorous, but not only does this come from a parody B-movie (I.e., not meant to be taken seriously), but it also doesn't pass either #2 or #3: It has no personality, and it's only a "giant clown"; no unique creature design.

I'm not at all trying to call every giant monster I see a kaiju; but I am beyond certain that being from Japan is not the only way a monster can be called one; even if it means classifying them as a sub-category such as "American Kaiju" or "British Kaiju" or whatever.

"Being a kaiju only means that the movie is a different style and art form and representation"

Then how and why are kaiju exclusive to movies that originate from Japan? Japan is a country; not an art form. Art is interpretive, artists are adaptable; case in point, the Spaghetti Westerns. All made in Italy, produced and directed by Italians, and yet they're still Westerns and we still call the characters in them western gunslingers because they stuck to the core rules of what a western was.

A german man invents the car and patents it in Germany; countries across the world make their own versions, still identify them all as a cars. Italy makes the original pizza; countries everywhere take the original concept and expand on it, yet they still call it pizza. America formulates the fictional version of the western gunslinger; an Italian man makes three movies inspired by them, and everyone identifies those new movies as the greatest Westerns ever made.

Japan makes the original kaiju, countries everywhere take the concept and make their own versions, and suddenly it's not a kaiju anymore? Something doesn't add up here.

I might have a possible reason for the military not using the same weapons for Mechagodzilla on regular tanks and planes. I think it is because the only way to hurt these MUTO is by pure strength. You saw what tanks and planes did to Godzilla, Kong and the MUTO’s and that is nothing. The only way these Kaiju can be hurt/killed is by pure strength of something as big as them (aka mechs). You need to fight fire with fire.

Also, tanks and planes need pilots and when you have a lot of pilots getting killed by these Kaiju, the military wouldn’t have much left. The military needs something else to deal with these situations. something that doesn't need many pilots to control (and even control from a distance) and can take the battle to somewhere were the kaiju can't cause any deaths or damage.

btw, there just so happens to be a Godzilla like a skeleton (from the first scene of the 2014 movie) that can support all of that weight of tons of metal (maybe the skeleton possesses regenerative capabilities). I am just saying.

^I cant disagree with anything you said there.

I'm just trying to point out things that could work. Aliens and Mechagodzilla just make sense to me. Why would we build a giant robot to fight a monster when we can fit all of mechagodzilla's weapons on military vehicles or planes? Im trying to bring in some kind reasoning behind the need for a giant robot in the Monsterverse. If you have a giant robot, aliens cant be far from the story. I mean why not!?

Any situation with Mechagodzilla is going to be a stretch in this Monsterverse. Might as well add aliens to the mix to be able to expand the universe for more monsters to be added in possible sequels. 

If you can spot the kaiju in these pictures. Congrats! You just proved my point to make. Not all of these monsters can share the name Kaiju. That doesn't mean that those other monsters don't have a place in cinema. They all have there cult followings and fans that don't need to categorize them along other film monsters. Gorgo, Reptillicus are not Kaiju, it doesn't mean they aren't loved any less than kaiju in cinematic history.

Being a kaiju only means that the movie is a different style and art form and representation. I cant make my point any more clearer than this example.

aliens are being used a lot. but as I said in my original forum the monsterverse doesn't need aliens to make Mechagodzilla. I do see some flaws now I think about the idea of Mechagodzilla without aliens, but if legendary finds a way to do Mechagodzilla realistically without aliens I will be impressed.

but then again aliens have become such a trend recently with sci-fi movies in general.

and about the American movies being more theorized about, well that is the thing. the American movies are more popular than shin and people are expecting a lot from it including a new version of Mechagodzilla. people are really hoping to see more of this universe and what it can bring. mechagodzilla is up there in the "Toho top 5" for a reason.

But Shin doesn't fully explain everything. They just make the situation believable and above all relatable to Japanese audiences.

Shin just goes into the fact that Godzilla is the most evolved being on the planet to summarize his abilities. It is no where near like the way fans are trying to theorize how Legendary is operating. 

I think we should give Aliens a break from live action stuff.

you said the American movies are the most IRL Godzilla movies, but I think shin Gojira is way more IRL. shin goes and explains so many things like what you said about him collapsing when he comes ashore. shin has become so IRL that I can't imagine any other kaiju joining that universe.

but here is the thing, shin is not trying to be a fun movie. it's just trying to be as IRL as possible and trying to get the spirit of the original back (which they did in my opinion). the American movies are trying to have fun with the ideas they come up with. sometimes realism needs to stay aside to make a fun and great movie.

pacific rim has giant robots, whilst being trying to be realistic (although I think the monsterverse can do even more IRL with giant robots than pacific rim). marvel and dc are doing the same with being IRL. In my opinion, the monsterverse can definitely come up with a way to put both Mechagodzilla and aliens in this grounded universe and make it believable. 

Ok. And what about the part of the plausibility of Mechagodzilla's existance in IRL (aka the second part)?

we will find out soon if the aliens are evil seeing as the next 2 movies are said to release this year.

also, the anime Netflix movies aren't as well known as the current American Godzilla movies. the anime is only being screened in Japanese cinemas and on Netflix and seeing as the people that watched the anime on Netflix are probably mostly Godzilla fans. the American movies are screened all over the world and are getting much more attention. this likely means that if the anime goes the same route as what we are predicting, it won't even bother the casual movie viewer if the American movies would have the same plot with Mechagodzilla.

btw it isn't something new to see the Godzilla franchise using alien invaders over and over again.

^

Wasn't there a theory about that second part? As for the first part, I feel like that might be plausible. Heck, I'm thinking about this topic in general and thinking, "If it is possible in the Monsterverse (the closest thing to a universe with a IRL Godzilla), would it be possible to create Mechagodzilla IRL?". Ignore the other giant monsters and their plausibility of existing IRL (Seriously, you won't believe how many things I have seen saying Godzilla would collapse and basically die out of water IRL.) and just think about the plausibility of Mechagodzilla, especially if his purpose is as a military weapon. How plausible would *that* be?

Hey, does anyone know what happened to this? Not only has it been a month since anyone talked about it, no-one's ever mentioned anything of it. Did it get accepted or did it fail? Can someone please explain?

to be fair if Mechagodzilla and aliens are going to be introduced into the monsterverse, it will be in 2022 at least. at this point, the anime Godzilla movies would have ended for 4 years. maybe that time gap is enough for it to not to feel repetitive? that might just be a big guess.

it might even get worse if the aliens in the anime movies turn out to be evil as well and use Mechagodzilla against the humans. now then we have ourselves a problem.