Comments (Page 217)

G. H. (Gman)

“So when Dougherty tries to make King of the Monsters about environmentalism, he's somewhat on the right track. But then he botches it with ideas of "Titans" triggering ecological growth via radiation--”

There are different types of radiation, Solar radiation does play a role in plant growth (and the creation of new life). The “radiation” that the titans emit was never stated to be nuclear radiation, it’s probably meant to be a new form of radiation that is emitted by the titans (possibly linked to the energy source within Hollow Earth). Godzilla and the other titans feed on the harmful nuclear radiation and expel a more beneficial energy source that helps to heal the environment, similar to how trees absorb carbon dioxide and create oxygen through photosynthesis. To say that Dougherty’s film ruined the franchise’s message by being “Pro Nuclear or Pro Radiation” is inaccurate and (in some cases) false.

 As far as Godzilla being revived by a nuclear warhead, it’s no different than some of the plot points that were seen in older Toho films. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah has a plot point where the Japanese government sends a nuclear submarine to create/re energize Godzilla so that he can protect them from Ghidorah, that could be misinterpreted as Pro Nuclear (hell, if you want to get technical, Godzilla was originally a living metaphor for the atomic bomb, yet he became a superhero in the later Showa films). The topic of Nuclear energy use has changed a lot since the 50s, back then nuclear energy was seen as only being a weapon of mass destruction, however in more recent years nuclear energy has been used in a somewhat more beneficial way, being used as an energy source to power civilization. One thing to note is that in the original 1954 film we have the Oxygen Destroyer (a potential stand in for nuclear weapons) being created by Daisuke Serizawa. In the film, Serizawa fears that his creation will be used as a weapon of mass destruction much like the nuclear bombs before it (leading to the line: “Bombs versus bombs, missiles versus missiles, and now a new superweapon to throw upon us all!” ), however he also states that he wants to find a beneficial use for it, stating that if he does he would be the first to show it off to the world. This can also be applied to nuclear energy, it was initially (and in some cases still is) used as a weapon, however in modern day we use it as energy to benefit our own existence.

At the end of WWII, Japan was very anti nuclear because of the bombings of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the “Lucky Dragon” incident, however in modern day, Japan uses nuclear power plants to power their towns and cities. Things change, and modern Japan isn’t as anti nuclear as it was in the past. In Godzilla: King of the Monsters, Ishiro Serizawa states that, “Sometimes... the only way to heal our wounds is to make peace with the demons who created them.” This plays into the scene where Serizawa sacrifices himself to revive Godzilla using the nuclear warhead, despite being against nuclear weapons in the previous film (due to his father’s history with Hiroshima).

 Nuclear energy is still a potential danger, Chernobyl and Fukushima are proof of that and modern Godzilla films still reflect that idea (In the form of the MUTOs and Shin Godzilla). The Godzilla series has been around for 67 years and the reason it’s been able to last that long is that it’s able to adapt and change as a result of the world around it, whether the films are about nuclear weapons, pollution, war, climate change, or the consequences of humanity messing with nature. If the Godzilla series continued to repeat the same theme from 1954 over and over again, it probably wouldn’t have lasted that long and we probably wouldn’t be here discussing it.

The point that you're trying to make is that Godzilla and some of the other Titans being protectors of the Earth in the MonsterVerse disrespects the message of the original by being “Pro Nuclear”, however the Toho Godzilla movies did the exact same thing. Like I stated earlier, Godzilla started out as a terrifying metaphor for the destruction caused by nuclear weapons, however Toho quickly turned him into a planet protecting superhero. If you want to dig deeper into the Showa films, you’ll find that they have the same “issues” that the MonsterVerse has. Godzilla defends the world from aliens (I guess that means nuclear weapons can protect us from invaders), Godzilla fights Hedorah (I guess nuclear weapons can stop pollution), Godzilla raises a son (radiation apparently makes you a great Dad). My point is that there are many inconsistencies within the Godzilla franchise, with the messages of the films contradicting themselves. Completely ignoring these inconsistent details in the Japanese Toho films, while constantly bashing the American films for them, is not only unfair, but it is extremely hypocritical. 

"History shows again and again, how nature points out the folly of man."

This needs to happen for real...

SasquaDash,
That's fascinating and all, but why couldn't this information been put in the movie instead of supplementary material in order to strengthen its themes? As a film on its own, this is problematic.

That said, I do think Godzilla '14 is better with its nuclear messaging than the other movies. But the hypocrisy of being made by a nuclear superpower can't help but peak through.

SarcasticGoji,
I think the misuse of Chernobyl as an example is an issue that's overlooked as well. The idea that the giant, radioactive monster cares about our environment, despite Chernobyl, is an issue Dougherty didn't really think through. (And he tends to delete comments when confronted with it.)

Radiation doesn't outright kill nature, it distorts it and Chernobyl is not thriving the way you might think. To this day vegetation in Chernobyl can not rot, making it impossible for nutrients from dead plants to return to the ground. [Source] Birds are born with smaller brains and shorter lifespans. [Source] And predators who have left the radiation zone are poisoning Scandinavian plants and livestock, making it difficult for farmers to put this stuff on the market. [Source] And this is 35 years later... The ecosystem is alive, but it's a mutant and it's negatively effective other aspects of the world.

Nevermind what kind of damage the Fukushima disaster has caused/will cause when Japan dumps the radioactive waste into the ocean.

Irregardless. Or is Redgardless? Unreardless?
Anyway whether it’s Hone Kong or not did not really matter to what he said.

G. H. (Gman)

While the MonsterVerse Godzilla wasn't woken up by the 1954 Castle Bravo nuclear test like in the original 1954 film, he was still awakened by humanity's actions during the Atomic age. In Godzilla 2014 it was implied that Godzilla was woken up when a nuclear sub disturbed him, however Godzilla: Awakening (and in the bonus features of 2014) they actually state that Godzilla and the Shinomura were first woken up and disturbed by the effects of the Hiroshima bombing and the Operation Crossroads nuclear tests in 1945, Godzilla patrolled the Pacific Ocean hunting the Shinomura, destroying several ships in the process, with survivors reported sightings of a monster that locals of the Pacific Islands referred to as “Gojira” (Similar to the 1954 film). The USS Nautilus was sent to investigate the incidents in 1954, and discovered Godzilla, who attacked the sub (possibly attacking it due to the nuclear energy inside, he may have viewed it as another titan). Interestingly, in the 2014 film they state that “the Americans first thought that it was the Russians, the Russians thought that it was them” (hinting at the Cold War tension, similar to Godzilla 1984). The American Government, realizing the potential threat that Godzilla may cause, (arrogantly) decided to use the most powerful weapon they had to kill him, the atomic bomb, not realizing that A. Godzilla feeds on nuclear energy and B. that atomic bombs woke Godzilla and the Shinomura in the first place. The American Government then attempted to cover up the event as one of the nuclear tests that they had been conducting over the past few years. Godzilla was unharmed, but the Shinomura was destroyed. With the other titan defeated, Godzilla returned to his hibernation until the events of 2014.      

@Xenotaris

I also try to do that in The Zilla Chronicles.

I try to make my kaiju in Rise of the Kaiju are basically forces of nature personified

I think a Godzilla Simulator would be awesome

This article is AMAZING.

Kattozilla

And if ur interested here’s a link

@SarcasticGoji

That’s a pretty good point.

G. H. (Gman)

I don’t think that Dougherty ruined the themes completely. It’s never explained what radiation but we can assume Gamma ray because that is what Hollywood likes best. I don’t think it’s ruined because like a natural it can result in plentiful life. Take a look at pictures of Chernobyl today. Environmentalism tends to look beyond just humans and our fears, so even if humans died in a nuclear war, that doesn’t mean all life would.

Thank you for the compliments on the article, I worked really hard on it, so cool to see that you enjoy it.

Isn’t Vishnu a god in Hindu religion? 

yeah this guy who was previously mentioned

I also find this article very well written.

I think it would be interesting to ask the what if question: What if Edwards, for example, had told all 3 stories?

I love this essay/article. Beautifully made and you got your points across.

Neat concept! It's sad that we haven't gotten a modern game like this as there is a TON of possibilities to make an incredible game. I made my own concept a while ago, though that one was more of an unofficial sequel to Godzilla PS4 and not as focused on the Monsterverse specifically.

I don't think the entire Monsterverse is void of themes. I leave that solely on the shoulders of Godzilla vs. Kong. (Although we could place that at Kong: Skull Island's feet as well, if star Samuel L. Jackson's talk show comments are anything to go on.) In fact it's very clear Edwards and Dougherty were aiming to do something with their movies.

Edwards even said, "Hopefully, you can watch this film and enjoy it as entertainment, but I personally like science fiction and fantasy when it has a little meaning behind it." [Source] And the fandom conveniently let Dougherty get away with gatekeeping when he said, "It wouldn't be a true Godzilla film if you didn't touch upon those things, otherwise you're just making a big dumb monster movie. There has to be a sprinkle of it, otherwise you're not being faithful to the original intent of the series. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a true Godzilla fan." [Source]

The intent is certainly there, and I think the themes are there, but they are woefully problematic. In the case of Godzilla '14 and Godzilla: King of the Monsters, we have a character IP based on very specific Japanese trauma clashing with the sensibilities of a film industry based in a leading nuclear superpower.

I'll stick with the assessment that Godzilla '14 is, thusfar, the best American made Godzilla film and that it runs with that honor very far away from the other movies. But even it is problematic. Suddenly, Castle Bravo isn't the reason Godzilla wakes up, but an American military reaction to killing a potential threat. It's interesting that both the 2014 movie and 1998 movie either shift blame or intent when considering nuclear testing. In 1998 it's the French military's fault. In 2014, America was trying to save the world under the guise of nuclear tests.

The reason I take issue with this is because, like it or not, Godzilla is residual scar tissue of another country caused by America. The entire reason the character exists was to create an outlet for a people to process their fears, phobias and grief as a nation. So when the country that caused the grief takes that outlet and puts to screen a Japanese man, who lost his father to Nagasaki's bombing, willfully detonating a nuclear weapon to save the world, killing himself in the process, I'm left in complete shock at the tone deafness it took to execute it.

A country, that left another country scared from nuclear bombing (and by extension, testing), literally took the mascot of their atomic-phobia and turned it into a nuclear, superpower poster boy. That is a hard pill to swallow.

But let's ignore the bomb for a moment. Godzilla has been adapted to represent the transition of Japan into capitalism - the marketing that comes with it - the deconstruction of nuclear families - the Cold War - violent attacks on women - nationalism - Japan's pollution issue of the 1970s - the post-war world, etc. To quote Matt Frank, "the specifics of Godzilla’s creation and narrative relevance have been honed and modified and pushed by over half a century’s worth of cultural evolution, modification, and revolution unique to Japan. That’s why Japanese Godzilla movies hit differently, even when they struggle themselves, compared to the US-made Godzilla movies." [source]

So when Dougherty tries to make King of the Monsters about environmentalism, he's somewhat on the right track. But then he botches it with ideas of "Titans" triggering ecological growth via radiation--The very thing that poisoned and killed countless in the fiction of Godzilla and the reality that inspired it. Never mind the fact Dougherty also named an American military base Castle Bravo, an event that poisoned Japanese fisherman, killing one, and putting irradiated tuna on the market--All the fault of... American military.

The problem isn't how Godzilla does or does not represent aspects related to nuclear proliferation. The problem is that it spring boarded the character to represent so many half-century, post-war themes that he may be too... well... Japanese for other countries to nail.

Does this mean I think only the Japanese can do Godzilla right? No, I think some have done a pretty solid job in certain comics, particularly "The Half-Century War", "Legends" and aspects of "Rulers of Earth." I also think there have been some outstanding stories told by Hollywood in the genre: Cloverfield, Pacific Rim, Colossal--But I also think we have to consider the possibility that storytellers outside of Japan might have a harder time understanding the character as it clashes with American commercialism. Remember, this is the country where radioactive spiders give people super powers. In Japan, that concept would've transformed someone into an atomic terror.

As for assigning what each monster may or may not represent, I actually applaud the effort, but find that there's some projecting there. Which is fine. Lord knows many historians, including myself, have looked very deeply into these films. However, my issue there is that each of these monsters generally come from the "Hollow Earth" making it a catchall origin. Quite frankly, I think giving Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra and Kong identical origins limits what the monsters say about us. And that has always been a major component of these movies.

Looking at such a misfire, I suppose mindless, dumb fun is the best Godzilla for Hollywood. Nothing in Godzilla vs. Kong represents why I personally fell in love with the franchise, but I concede it's connecting with people better than something with more substance. I just hope it doesn't set a precedence for the genre.

This article is beautiful

It’s okie, I was just hoping for an opportunity to rant.

SarcasticGoji 

"Also before I clicked I was really hoping u were talking about the Music"

sorry for the confusion, I couldn't think of another title...

SarcasticGoji 

In a way, Yes,

This was a topic I feel needed some more attention, I had a lot to talk about and felt that there was too much to put in a single comment, so I thought that creating a new topic/discussion would be a better option.

Also, I like these ideas, but where are these themes applicable? And don’t Ghidorah and MechaG represent the same thing?

Also before I clicked I was really hoping u were talking about the Music

This was a response to comparisons of All Monsters Attack and GVK, isn’t it?

Is This Like All Real Or Is This Just Another Hoax Just To Think Others Into Believing It's Real?

I did too

I thought he kind of had a therapsid/synapsid look to him

Unpopular opinion, but I REALLY liked City on the Edge of Battle. Unlike most, I thought the Mechagodzilla City was really creative and the twist with the bilsaludos(sorry if I spelt it wrong) gave that evil Godzilla alien vibe from the showa era. 

Hmmm, while I don't particularly like any of the designs, the Delgadosaurus looks like it would the most likely to appear in the monsterverse.

I kind of wish we got to see this thing fight Kong. It would have been really cool!

Love Scylla, she looks very Lovecraftian. :)

Baragon def would be a pre mammal of some sort. It has a very..... doglike(?) Face and big ears that aren't really seen in many, if any, reptiles.

well going off real world scientific evidence then yes, the earliest evidence of dinosauromorph is the Early Triassic but who knows maybe there may have been primitive dinosauromorphs in the permian at least in the monsterverse.

PS...
Dinosaurs are a type of dinosauromorph but not all dinosauromorphs were dinosaurs if you know what I mean. 

how can you mistake hong kong for tokyo its explicitly mentioned that it hong kong

what are evidenced i asked lol

I confused what does send for audio description English mean?

for all Netflix users please before the show come sout in usa

Can you guys sebd request for audio description in english for Godzilla sigular point 

I said there’s evidence against edwards. Godzilla is stated to have lived way before the dinosaurs.