New Replies (Page 118)

to be frank, the original Jurassic Park novel is based around genetically modified organisms and was being written when Godzilla vs Biollante came out. Not saying Michael Crichton saw Godzilla vs Biollante prior to writing Jurassic Park but when being filmed into the first movie, I bet Steven Spielberg more than likely seen Godzilla vs Biollante since he is a kaiju fan

SasquaDash

I don’t appriciate the comments of the directors. But you realize I mean that Godzilla 1998 was literally EVERYWHERE. I’m not even exaggerating.

And building up to the “fight” is not marketing its build up for the sequels. And planet of the monsters never ever showed other monsters in its trailer, and city of mechagodzilla only mentioned the monsters name. It was fans who made assumptions. Trailers didn’t promise anything. And I went back to check the trailers. Non of the things people were expecting or raging about afterward we’re in the trailer.

but I blame the City on the edge of battle posters

G. H. (Gman)

Here's a screenshot from the article:

Other interviews stated that, despite not knowing what the Godzilla series was about, he actively chose not to watch any of the older films because he felt that he didn't need to. He didn't know much about the franchise and clearly didn't bother with finding out what it was about or what it's appeal was, pretty much showing how little he cared. I also find the fact that he questioned "Does he really have to breathe fire?" and the fact that he thought omitting it would be "interesting", kind of ironic, because the 1998 film was bashed for the same mindset.

As for Sesheta, his statement of, “We welcome getting bashed by the traditionalists. That proves more than anything we succeeded in creating something different.” is pretty telling towards his view of the franchise and its fans. He's pretty much stated that he went out of his way to anger fans and to go against what was established, because in his mind he was "doing something right". If he really cared about the franchise, why would he go out of his way to anger and alienate the fanbase? This is basically like how Rian Johnson went out of his way to anger Star Wars because he viewed the backlash as him "winning". Sesheta's comments about traditionalists not liking the films because they were "too complicated" for them are pretty insulting, not only is he basically implying that the "traditionalist" are too dumb to understand his work, but he's basically trying to inflate his own ego, pretty much saying that his work is "perfect" and it's "the fans fault" for it not doing well. His statements come off as extremely narcissistic and really shows how little he actually cares.

Other statements that they made, such as, "Do you think a Godzilla-Store would work in the 90's?" are also pretty arrogant. As if they think that their work on the franchise is the only reason why it's successful. 

Imagine if the team involved with the Monsterverse acted this way and said these statements, the fanbase would have a fit, accusing them of not caring for the franchise and disrespecting the legacy of the series, demanding that they loose the rights to make Godzilla films immediately. Yet the team working on the Polygon Trilogy said this and, for some reason, they're getting a free pass.

HinikunaGoji

"And the 1998 advertising campaign also helped generate hate for the movie"

The advertising campaign for the Polygon Trilogy is worse though. While 1998 had a more secretive campaign of not fully showing the audience what Godzilla was like, the Polygon Trilogy is straight up guilty for false advertisement. Planet of the Monsters advertised an "planet of monsters" featuring classic Toho Kaiju, they instead gave us a planet with very little monsters and the Toho kaiju were nothing more than 5 five second cameos, with some not even showing up (Hedorah is only name dropped and Rodan and Anguirus were dead before the movie even started). The advertisements for City on the Edge of Battle had a huge focus on Godzilla fighting Mechagodzilla, only for Mechagodzilla to NOT show up and instead they had him as a city that didn't even do anything to fight Godzilla. The Planet Eater's advertisements focused heavily on Godzilla fighting King Ghidorah, only for the movie to have one of the laziest "fights" in the entire franchise (if you could call it a fight) with the Ghidorah heads latching on to Godzilla and basically doing nothing for about ten minutes and then Godzilla one-shoting each of the heads. Not to mention that they built up that "fight" for three movies. None of the three films actually delivered on what they advertised to people, they essentially used the marketing to get people to watch the films, promising something that they never intended to give. Then they have the nerve to say that the fans are at fault for being disappointed. 

cool

So by that logic did Jurassic World rip off Godzilla vs. Biollante from 26 years before it or...

sonictiger

its not like Jurassic world did GMO first

Biollante

Let's face it, GMTs would be ripping off of Jurassic World and frankly I doubt that the MonsterVerse would be executing this tired GMO concept better than JW.

Just saying.

Bigger the better imo

well this went off topic really fast

SasquaDash

it was a device to show passage of time. Godzilla earth was already impossibly powerful when he was 150 ft

And the 1998 advertising campaign also helped generate hate for the movie, and 1998 own it’s own doesn’t necessarily succeed as a movie. The polygon trilogy has more of a chance 

SasquaDash

To be fair, many don’t actually praise the anime trilogy 

HinikunaGoji,
Also true.

Regardless, I think this narrative that the anime trilogy co-directors "hated the franchise and fanbase," has been blown incredibly out of proportion by those looking for extra ammo against it.

SasquaDash,
Pretentious, maybe, but I don't see the comparison with the 1998 film in the least. Roland Emmerich full on explained he was not a Godzilla fan and even claimed after trying to watch 5 or 6 he couldn't go on any further. He didn't want to make the movie to begin with and lamented that he never got to make his asteroid-centric disaster film. [Source]

Hiroyuki Sesheta, by contrast, had said he was an avid Godzilla fan multiple times and has seen the entire series. In the Washington Post article, he highlighted the intentional attempt to reach out to a different audience: “We welcome getting bashed by the traditionalists. That proves more than anything we succeeded in creating something different.” And all that co-director Kobun Shizuno said was, “I’m not a Godzilla expert and so I simply made a film I thought would be enjoyable.” Nowhere is it stated they, "didn't bother watching to older films because they felt like they were 'above it'." Quite the opposite since Sesheta was a fan and Shizuno teamed up with him to get core tenants about the character correct. I get how some of these quotes rub fans the wrong way, but to go as far as to say they, "showed how little they cared for the franchise," is going pretty far based on no evidence.

That's a far, far cry from the 1998 producer Dean Devlin saying, "Both of us [Emmerich] thought it was a dopey idea the first time we talked." [Source] Or Emmerich saying, ""I was never a big Godzilla fan, they were just the weekend matinees you saw as a kid, like Hercules films and the really bad Italian westerns. You’d go with all your friends and just laugh." Among a laundry list of other things. [Source]

As for your pondering, I too often wonder if the Monsterverse were made by Toho, shot-for-shot, but with Japanese actors and tokusatsu visuals would it still be beloved? Or just considered another rehash of the same'ole, same'ole?

Also, that moment when you realize that Kong's axe was 2x bigger than he was in Kong: Skull Island...

monsterzero9

I personally though that him being that big was a little ridiculous, he didn't really need to be that big to be considered a major threat.

@SasquaDash

that was a good speech

@SasquaDash

goji earth is awsome the way he is

HinikunaGoji

I do like how massive he's become, but at the same time I feel like he doesn't really need to be over 400ft, he's already large enough and powerful enough, that him exceeding that height seems a little like overkill. 

G. H. (Gman)

I don't want to sound too combative, but in my opinion the Polygon Trilogy felt like overly pretentious mess that really didn't seem to get what made the franchise popular. I find it ironic that the 1998 movie continues to be hated for being different and for the people involved not caring enough for the franchise, yet the Polygon Trilogy gets a pass despite being guilty of exact same thing. The director and writers literally praised themselves for disappointing the fans and then pretty much implied that those who didn't like their work were too stupid to get it, they even went on record stating that they didn't bother watching to older films because they felt like they were "above it". They publicly showed how little they cared for the franchise and the fans, and based on their own statements it seems like they went out of there way to disrespect the series as much as they could, rather than honoring it. Yet somehow despite this they still get a free pass for it. There's honestly times where I wonder if the Polygon Trilogy or Singular Point were made by an American film studio, would they still get a pass? Or would the fanbase rip it apart in the same way they did to 1998?

HinikunaGoji,
They didn't do well at the Japanese Box Office, but, as usual, context is king. They were only released in 158-159 theaters and their theatrical releases were announced at the same time as the Netflix releases, which were only a month later. Compare that to the 366-448 theaters the other Godzilla films have opened in Japan since 2014 and that's a massive disadvantage.

Also note that audiences knew the movies would be on Netflix a month after the theatrical premieres and it's not a lot of incentive. Also recall Netflix spends hundreds of millions for the acquisiton of movies on their streaming service just for specific regions. A worldwide exclusive deal with Polygon/Toho would not have only made up for the production budgets, but made a hefty profit.

Essentially, it's most likely the anime trilogy made all of its money on Netflix--Which, to be fair, has proven to be a pretty easy model to make money off of. The theatrical releases were just so Toho could squeeze a few more pennies out of it.

G. H. (Gman)

I thought it did not well in the Japanese box office, but maybe I’m wrong.

Ive always liked the trilogy, even when it came out. But avoided the third film for a long time because of reveiws on it. But I got around to it and enjoyed it. 

SasquaDash

You just made me think of when I was younger, I made a Godzilla that was 8000 feet tall. At that point I feel like I crossed a line

HinikunaGoji,
The anime trilogy has actually been cited as a success and it's not hard to surmise why. The theatrical releases were announced alongside the Netflix releases--Which sounds like a company trying to shoot itself in the foot. Why see a movie in theaters when you can just wait an extra month to see it on a streaming service? Add to the fact that the films were limited theatrical releases, the worldwide Netflix deal likely made Polygon/Toho buckets of money before they ever even hit theaters.

As for the trilogy itself, I'm glad some like minded people have re-evaluated it for the better. It expands reasons to watch the franchise instead of going through the same, humdrum, cookie-cutter routine we've seen for 67 years. I'm glad we've seen more experimentation with the franchise in that vein. The Monsterverse gets surface level tenants right, but for Hollywood, I guess that's all it can afford to do.

the bigger the better baby.

HinikunaGoji

I'm fine with them being the sizes that they are, but I feel like they might be pushing it a little with their constant growth, considering that Godzilla's almost 400ft tall and Ghidorah's over 500ft tall. Personally, I always felt that Godzilla's size in the Heisei series (287-328ft tall) was a good size for him. Going over 400ft seems a bit too crazy (Godzilla Earth being over 980ft tall was way too oversized in my opinion).

sonictiger

I particularly love the intro to KOTM. Bear Mcrearys score was amazing. I saw the movie in IMAX when I first saw it, it was amazing

Smaller is better for tokusatsu. It allows for more detailed miniatures and for the effects style to create more efficient shots that place characters with the monster. Koichi Kawakita once lamented that making Godzilla 100 meters in the Heisei series was a mistake for this very reason and had hoped he would go back to something more manageable in the future. This eventually happened in the Millennium series, of course, but Kawakita was no longer a part of the series by then.

The anime/Hollywood monsters can get away with bigger due to the start-from-scratch, digital nature of animation and CG. But the risk it runs there is making the monsters so big that it's difficult for the characters to relate to them--It certainly makes shots including both more difficult. Sometimes this is the point in order to convey a more "god-like" separation between the two. Other times it's just a nuisance for scenes that include some sort of connection between character and monster.

SasquaDash

Godzilla Reached 300 feet in the 90s…

Honestly I’m fine with it. I don’t want to see a Godzilla that gets absolutely unseeable in skyscrapers.

eh, kind of

MonsterVerse just is amazing with it's intros

SasquaDash

I actually really like the concepts in the anime trilogy, I was more talking about the films finical success, but since we’re here….

I get everything about you’re complaints, but Godzilla Earth is amazing. I feel they nailed him. Even though it takes him 15 minutes to move an inch, he had a very good screen presence to me, and the themes (music and philosophy) really worked and resonated with me. He actually felt god like.

But Monsterverse has a better grasp of the franchise as a whole. They know how to introduce main kaiju in a generally satisfying way. 

HG, I didn't leave anywhere lol.

SD, Legendary only knows because they don't really rely on IP for the most part.

HinikunaGoji

In all honesty, it felt like Polygon didn't "get" the franchise even when they had access to it. It seemed like it was a giant monster trilogy that didn't want to be about giant monsters and it actively tried to avoid having the monsters in it. It seemed like they used the monsters begrudgingly, as if their involvement got in the way. They didn't even seem to understand the monsters that they used in the films, from turning Godzilla into a metallic plant, Mechagodzilla into a city, and Ghidorah into celestial tapeworms, they really seemed to not know what they were doing. That, along with the directors and writers essentially looking down at the the franchise and the fanbase, with some of them even stating how they didn't even bother to watch any of the movies because the felt it was "below them", it's honestly baffling as to why Toho would give them the rights to make anything involving Godzilla. Seriously, the 1998 film felt more inline with what Godzilla was, and that's saying something. People can say what they want about Legendary and the Monsterverse, they at least know what they're doing for the most part, and seem to get the franchise and the appeal of it.

HinikunaGoji

I was just listing an example who worked on the godzilla IP, I would have also mentioned Tri-Star buuuuuut that is a HUGE sore spot for some fans

Xenotaris

I don’t think polygon will get the Godzilla Franchise anymore.

Based on the reception of they’re last outing, I doubt toho would take that gamble, as the anime trilogy didn’t preform amazingly

sonictiger

I know that, but….

Did you leave canada

HG, It's a Stranger Things quote.

Well I did say "Biollante, she is a rose hybridized with Godzilla and Human DNA" so the human part is still there.

What I am trying to say is she is a Human + Rose + Godzilla hybrid. Which is her character core much like Godzilla is a radioactive reptile of sorts, Rodan is a volcanic pterosaur, Mothra a benevolent divine moth and Ghidorah a mostly evil dragon that sometimes comes from space

Xenotaris,
As I mentioned, I don't think it has to specifically be Erika. But I do think a similar human element should be injected.