New Replies (Page 117)
Home Alone 2021 coming to Disney+ soon!
I think underated kaiju need some international love
"I can't help but wonder which version of context you're using?"
I'm using the exact same translation as the one your using...
"conveniently perpetuated by a certain youtuber that left that little nugget out since he didn't like the trilogy"
So if someone doesn't fully agree with your view point that means they're immediately wrong and "conveniently perpetuating false hoods"? Is this the same way you've accused me of "conveniently targeting" you, because my opinions oppose yours and because I've called out hypocrisy in the past? Honestly, it seems like your "conveniently" spinning a narrative in an attempt to discredit those who don't agree with you.
Nostalgic does not equal good, which is what the MonsterVerse really relied on quite a bit. Also they bait you with big names like Bryan Cranston and Millie Bobby Brown. I think since Biollante hasn't been in any other movies it'd be a tad more original than relying on the most popular Toho IPs to cross paths with our hunky reptile boi Godzilla.
Fricking awesome
Fricking awesome
I liked it!
Pretty fun short.
I liked it!
Pretty fun short.
True, you didn't, though, "based on their own statements it seems like they went out of there way to disrespect the series as much as they could, rather than honoring it," comes close I suppose.
I'm also curious as to where you're getting your info from. While they most Sesheta most certainly implied confirmation of welcoming the criticism, and Shizuno admitted to not being a fan, the assertions of it being "too complicated" and that they were the reasons for the Godzilla Store (they never said that) sound sucpiciously like a Oricon and Gigazine translation that Matt Frank confirmed to be misconstrued, yet was conveniently perpetuated by a certain youtuber that left that little nugget out since he didn't like the trilogy. I can't help but wonder which version of context you're using?
As for the Monsterverse, good for you. I for one think it would've just been the same bland stuff Toho had been shelling out since 1991, save for two or three entries. It certainly feels like it now--Hollywood or not.
At no point did I say Sesheta and Shizuno were out to kill the franchise, I stated that they didn't really know what they were doing with the franchise and didn't really seem to care if they were getting the source material right, and, based on their own comments, they wanted to annoy and alienate the "traditionalists", because in their minds that meant they were doing something "right". Not to mention how they brushed off any criticism, accusing those who didn't like it of "not getting it" and stating that the story was "too complicated" for them, basically insinuating that they're to "dumb" to get their work, which is extremely insulting and disrespectful to the fanbase. Along with that they kept trying to claim that they were responsible for the franchise's success, claiming that the Godzilla Store could only be successful because of their work (Apparently they think that Godzilla merchandise didn't exist or matter before the Polygon Trilogy), which comes of as pretty narcissistic. I'm all for doing new things with the franchise, but going out of your way to alienate and disrespect your primary audience is not a good way of doing it.
As for the question if I would still like the Monsterverse if it were made by Toho and was a tokusatsu production. My answer is Yes, I would still like it.
sort of, i guess. a bit like Battra and Mothra. the kaiju is definitely a big good lol
SasquaDash,
I think had Gareth Edwards, Michael Dougherty or Adam Wingard said similar things (and Dougherty, to his credit has to fans on twitter) they would be creatives sticking to their guns. I've criticized their decisions for a great deal of creative reasons ranging from boring to flat out misunderstanding the material--Not unlike your assertion of the anime trilogy--But I have not criticized them sticking to those creative decisions or villifying them as non-fans. (Something Wingard may or may not have done against studio pressure, the background on that is still fuzzy though.) Inept talents? That's another story.
What you have proposed is that Sesheta and Shizuno are non-fans out to torpedo the franchise in comparison to Emmerich and Devlin. (And admittedly, their goal wasn't to torpedo it either.) I don't believe anyone got the job to do that, although Emmerich is certainly the closest given his comments for how much he disliked and insulted the series.
As for praising the Polygon trilogy for bringing up new ideas and throwing the Monsterverse under the bus for "doing the same", I disagree with the latter considerably. HinikunaGoji has it down pat. Again, I've wondered since 2019, would the Monsterverse be given a pass and be so beloved if it were a Toho, tokusatsu production framed shot-for-shot with Japanese actors and effects? I've posed this question to numerous people on various occasions and even on this forum I've been told, "no". It would just be another Heisei/Millennium-era, poorly told retread on space monster invasions (2019 King Ghidorah to Monster-X, Orga, SpaceGodzilla and... well... King Ghidorah), psuedo-military factions (Monarch to G-Force, G-Graspers, AMF, M-Force), fictional sci-fi vehicles (the Argo & HEAV to Super-X, Super-X II, Garuda, Super-X III, Griffon, AC-3 White Heron, Gotengo) and older themes that have been covered before in better movies--Something I won't bring into the conversation at this point as I see it only opening a can of worms.
The anime trilogy took on all new, existential themes never touched by the franchise and made a point to be different all around from kaiju concept to thematic ideas while still keeping the basics of their godlike heritage.
But I digress. The initial debate was whether or not Sesheta and Shizuno are non-fans out to kill the franchise, ala, G'98. There's just not enough there to show that.
reminds me of a kaiju i made who was genetically engineered to be basically the opposite of Rodan
um
i'm not adding anything important to the convo-
uuh
yes, it's supposed to be behind that mountain range/cloud thing
also Have a Nice Life is always a win
*looks at my "Eternal Worm" fanart* uh- couldn't be me
just kidding
i honestly don't care how big kaiju are, they can be 19 feet tall or 10000, i just think they're nifty
I blame hollywood producers (and even Toho producers) on why the MonsterVerse or any Godzilla related movie for not venturing outside the status quo, since Godzilla 1998 came out the producers had stopped wanting to be different. regardless of how the director feels about the franchise, Emmerich was chosen as director due to having experiences in disaster movies..so I've read in a time magazine about Godzilla movie history.
So ever since Godzilla 2014 had came out they tried to not experiment outside of what makes a "proper" Godzilla movie.
In order for the Monsterverse to continue, the studios needs to be allowed to experiment.
Ever since seeing the 2014 Godzilla, I was intrigued by it and began watching the showa, heisei, and millennium Godzilla films, and have become a big Godzilla fan ever since.
Several new ideas you have provided have already been done before, maybe not at the same scale, but still have been. For example GMK explored kaiju in human history and The Mothra Trilogy has also explored kaiju in prehistory.
Now no story will ever have completely new ideas but Monsterverse itself hasn’t felt as interesting after KOTM. I blame my interest loss in MV on COVID, but it feels very repetitive. It just feels like the Showa era over again. Which isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s not as fresh.
Yes I agree that reiwa does have an addiction to being new and different, to different successes. But back to the anime trilogy, the concepts have not been criticized, their execution has. No one criticized a 50,000 year old, super powerful goji, they criticized how he slow he walks. No one said “Eldritch lovecraftian ghidorah is bad”, but said “Noodle Ghidorah is dumb.”
As for singular point. I’m tired defending it, but I will say i love how when I watch it new things stand out to me.
I would disagree in saying that the Monsterverse hasn't done much in terms of new ideas. The Hollow Earth is definitely the most prominent of the new ideas, but there are a lot of other ideas that they've introduced or expanded on, such as the hierarchy of the titans and Godzilla being King of the Monsters. Sure there were hints of it in some of the older films like Godzilla leading the charge against Ghidorah in Destroy All Monsters and him giving Anguirus orders in Godzilla vs Gigan, but not to the extent that's been shown within the Monsterverse, with Godzilla and Ghidorah being in a constant power struggle, and the lower ranking titans being loyal to who ever wins. The Monsterverse even brought in more natural relationships with some of the titans, like the MUTOs being a parasitic species to Godzilla and the fact that some of the titans seem to be part of the natural order as opposed to being aberrant creatures that are just run around and destroy things. There are certain ideas that have been brought up that can be explored in the future like, the ancient Titan War and the mystery of the Hollow Earth energy (and how it relates to the titans themselves) Not to mention, how it introduced potential ideas that weren't seen in the older films such as the titans playing a role in Earth's natural history (seriously, how many dinosaurs did they accidentally squash?) along with the start of human civilization and how that ties into our culture and mythology (image a tribe of Neanderthals witnessing a titan battle and then depicting it in cave paintings and other forms of primitive art). The ideas of the Monsterverse may not be as out there as the Reiwa series, but in all honesty it doesn't need to be. I feel like you can balance the traditional ideas with the new out there ideas, introducing something new while not straying too far from what came before and potentially alienating the fans of the older stuff, something that I personally feel that the Polygon Trilogy and Singular Point kind of have a problem with.
Monsterverse hasn’t really done much new. And the new things it does add are not really criticisable because they’re well made. Take the hollow earth, I’ve seen no criticism on that front.
Notice that in this discussion only concepts and directors motivations have been defended not the movies as a whole. The anime trilogy has many other problems, like the main character not being interesting until the third movie.
No, what I'm saying is that the current Japanese films/series are basically being given a free pass for everything and any criticism towards them is immediately brushed aside and ignored, while the American films get ripped apart for not being exactly how the fanbase wants. It honestly doesn't seem fair. This isn't me trying to start fights, it's really frustrating that whenever I try to speak my mind and whenever I don't agree with the majority on this site I'm being told how I'm "wrong" and then accused of trying to "ruin" or "disrupt" forums or that I'm "conveniently targeting" people. Yes, I mentioned how Gman bashed the Monsterverse writers for coming up with an idea that wasn't exactly what he wanted, but that wasn't an attempt to bring up an old fight, it was responding to the fact that he was giving the Polygon Trilogy a pass for not being "hindered by the constraints and expectations of the series" yet bashes the American movies for having the same reason, which is extremely hypocritical. This has nothing to do with past arguments with Gman, this whole double standard and division has been effecting the fandom a lot in the past few years and honestly I find it extremely troubling.
He hasn’t said that Monsterverse or The anime trilogy is better, your just comparing you past angers with him to this for no reason. All he’s done is pointed out that the director isn’t just being rude or condescending. And provides evidence. You’ve just resorted back to this.
He hasn’t mentioned Monsterverse once.
So if Gareth Edwards, Michael Dougherty or Adam Wingard said or did the same thing as Sesheta and Shizino, you would be 100% okay with it, no complaints what so ever? Because with the logic your using, Legendary should be free to do what ever they want with the franchise because it's their "vision" and "creative choices", yet you pretty much bash the Monsterverse for not being exactly the way you want them to be. You keep mentioning how Toho's bringing new ideas to the series by not following what has been done before ("he wanted a fresh pair of eyes to be unhindered by the constraints and expectations of the series"), yet in an older forum you bashed the careers of the Monsterverse writers because they suggested an idea for a movie that wasn't exactly what you wanted, bashing it for not falling in line with the older Toho movies. So somehow the Japanese movies are free to do whatever they want because it's "new" and "experimental", but if the American movies don't completely fall in line with the previous movies then suddenly their not "respectful enough" to the source material? I find it ironic that people are free to nitpick the Monsterverse and talk crap about the series, creators and fans. Yet if someone tries to criticize the Polygon Trilogy or Singular Point, they're either completely shut down or they're met with other fans criticizing them and telling them that they're "wrong". Seems pretty hypocritical...
SasquaDash,
Shizuno was not a fan, but I see no evidence of ill will or contempt toward the franchise as a whole. As a matter of fact it was not Shizuno's idea to not watch Godzilla movies--It was Sesheta's. Sesheta brought Shizuno on precisely to keep his fanboy love of the material in check. (Something I wish Dougherty had done.)
"I’ve known Godzilla since I was a child and I understand the significance of Godzilla thoroughly as a professional who is in the film industry. It was easy to imagine how hard the challenge would be, including how to visualize the beauty of tokusatsu, the stylized special effects which are essential to Godzilla, in an anime adaptation ... Our Godzilla has a dominant presence and is a subject to inspire feelings of awe and respect. It’s called ‘kaijuu’ (‘strange beast’ in Japanese), but its existence isn’t simple but more god-like and transcendent. Godzilla makes us wonder if we must fight against it, or accept its existence just like natural disasters.
I decided on the way we would be depicting Godzilla at an early stage. Godzilla is depicted similarly to a sacred tree at a Shinto shrine which is a subject of worship." - Hiroyuki Sesheta [Source]
This doesn't sound like a lead director who has no love for the franchise. As a result it was Shesheta, the Godzilla fan, who insisted Shizuno not watch Godzilla movies, because he had that element covered. [Source] He wanted a fresh pair of eyes to be unhindered by the constraints and expectations of the series:
"He [Shizuno] can appeal to the mainstream, whereas Urobuchi and I are rather geeky types. Shizuno has an ability to adapt any geeky subject for the mainstream. He has a brilliant talent.
I honestly enjoy interacting with Urobuchi and Shizuno. Thanks to them, I was allowed to concentrate on the areas I’m good at and love as much as possible. I relied on them thinking, ‘even though the world of the movie I set is rather geeky, Shizuno will adjust it for the mass market.’ Urobuchi gave authenticity and respectable formality, and Shizuno gave overwhelming mass appeal to the movie. I was able to give many geeky suggestions because of these guys, who I was able to trust greatly." [Source]
"He's pretty much stated that he went out of his way to anger fans and to go against what was established, because in his mind he was 'doing something right'."
This is such a bizarre, hostile read. I'm not sure how sticking with your creative choices equates intentionally trying to anger a fan base. Sesheta's simply explaining that the divisiveness is a confirmation of going outside of expectation. I'm pretty sure a self-proclaimed fan didn't take the job with the intention of angering a fan base. Nor did Rian Johnson--Contrary to popular belief.
cities are getting taller, & bigger monsters are cooler.
That still doesn’t compare to 1998, it was bad marketing and wasn’t honest but no where near over the top.
It wasn't really the fans making assumptions though, Mechagodzilla was pretty much the main focus of the marketing campaign, with Mechagodzilla being on all the posters and the fact that a ton of merchandise of Mechagodzilla was released, including toys, key chains, and clothing just to name a few, they honestly put more focus into marketing Mechagodzilla than they did for Godzilla himself. An official plot synopsis even flat out stated that Godzilla would be battling Mechagodzilla in the film.
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nobody ripped off anybody it’s not an original idea
speaking of Steven Spielberg, one of the first jurassic park movie's influence was Mothra 1961
Yeah Universal ripped off of Godzilla Vs. Biollante in my opinion.
As long as Legendary uses Biollante, they can do whatever they want.
