New Replies (Page 681)

The Heisei Era can get tricky due to the time travel introduced in Godzilla VS. King Ghidorah.

Has the stable time loop theory involving a second Godzilla ever been confirmed officially by Toho staff or ancillary products? Because if it has, it'd go a long way in simplifying the timeline. If not, THEN we have issues.

All sources explicitly say Godzilla was trapped in the Kuril Islands in 1955. I don't remember any mention of Godzilla being near Korea in Godzilla Raids Again. Tsukioka and Kobayashi are working from Hokkaido, and logic would dictate they are scouting the waters near Hokkaido, which are cold and full of icy islands. By "other country" Hidemi likely means Russia. Unless I'm blatantly missing something, in which case it would be a retcon on Toho's part.

I know Selina Salno says Rodan was "resurrected." I even said that in my previous post. That's the strongest piece of evidence that it is meant to be a 1956 Rodan. However sources still call him "Second Generation," and there are official books that acknowledge the possibility it could be the First Generations' offspring.

Rodan and Mothra were not produced with the intention of being part of the Godzilla series, but when they crossed over all Toho had to do was add small nods to those films' events to weld the continuities together. In Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster, the characters know what Rodan is because it was written with the intention of Rodan having happened. In Mothra vs. Godzilla, the characters know what Mothra is for the same reason.

I know I'm not incorrect because I too, watched the original Japanese version of raids again last night from classic media. You simply can not rewrite your own input to make a back up claim. That's cherrypicking. It is Tsukioka and Kobayashi who confirm he's at the opposite side of the arctic. Why do you think Hideami says "You'll be entering the other country."? 

You're also incorrect about Rodan not resurrecting. It is the Princess that confirms that the volcano was reviving the original Rodan. Go back and watch the original Japanese version yourself. 

While the Princess is a prophetess, she gives very clear warning that the gases and such from the volcano are in fact resurrecting the original Rodan. It's there in the films, your sources are wrong. 

You are correct in the generation stuff. I was wrong, but, How did they know who Rodan was if he didn't exist or even Mothra before hand? They were not apart of the Godzilla series until they made them crossover. It's all there in the films. The films prove my point. 

@Huge-Ben I'm not sure if you read or understood anything I said.

"Generation" in this context doesn't refer to what era it is. Only the 1954 Godzilla is "first generation," 1955-1972 is called "second generation," and 1984-1995 is called "third generation." Any Japanese book about the franchise will tell you this. This same logic is applied to all the other kaiju: 1955 Anguirus is called "first generation" and 1968-75 is called "second generation." Mothra 1961-64 is "first generation," her larvae are "second generation," and the Mothra from Destroy All Monsters is "third generation." It's a completely separate concept from the Showa, Heisei and Millennium eras. Multiple generations of kaiju can appear in the same era.

Also, I'm afraid you're incorrect about where Godzilla was frozen in 1955. I'll admit I wasn't sure exactly where he was frozen, but upon rewatching the film I noticed that Tsukioka is transferred to Hokkaido, and is scouting the waters in the area when he sees Godzilla. Godzilla is spotted and frozen in the Kuril Islands, an island chain located northeast of Hokkaido and south of Russia. According to Tanaka, after being frozen the water subsequently carried Godzilla towards the North Pole. King Kong vs. Godzilla does acknowledge the events of Godzilla Raids Again, because the characters know Godzilla was frozen, and lands in Hokkaido when he reaches Japan. It may not be completely explicit, but it's very much there. Why else would they go to the lengths of having Godzilla be an established character already and having him emerge from an icy prison north of Japan if they didn't intend to pick up from Godzilla Raids Again? There's absolutely nothing to suggest it's the same Godzilla from 1954, and sources from Toho explicitly say it isn't the same Godzilla.

The Rodan that appears in Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster isn't confirmed to be one of the 1956 Rodans. The two Rodans from 1956 are called "first generation Rodan" in official books, while the one from 1964 is called "second generation," though its identity is unclear. It's entirely possible one of the Rodans survived the climax of the original film, but equally possible this Rodan is one of their offspring. All we know is that the events of the original Rodan are held canon in Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster. The same holds true for the entirety of the Showa series. The continuity is generally loose and explicit references are few and far between, but Toho says all the Showa Godzilla films, along with at least Rodan and Mothra, are part of the same continuity. The Godzilla introduced in Godzilla Raids Again is the Second Generation Godzilla, and he reappeared in every subsequent film through Terror of Mechagodzilla.

To avoid going further off-topic, I think I'll start a separate blog post running down the continuity.

Because 54 died, and because the 2nd Godzilla came from an iceberg where the last film left him trapped. And im only talking about the showa generation and series about my theory.

Your talking about the 4th generation millennium series, I understand what your trying to say there about 54 staying alive somehow in that movie. But that's a different point from where Im coming from here. Im talking about the chronological order of the Showa series films that would give my theory any ground.

we are however getting way off topic, and i fear others don't want to join in on this topic and question. I can see we just don't see eye to eye on what I was trying to say about the possibility of the movie having a draw and the reason why. I am however great full for your input and look forward to having more conversations with you.

I still would like to hear from other people on what they think of the outcome in the movie.

I think you guys are misinterpreting what "generation" means. Second generation is from the 60's-70's. Third generation is from 84-95, fourth generation is from 99-04. Yet, we've all come to accept the 4th generation as individual films except the kiryu saga. I think generation just means the years that they were made in. 

Either way, they knew Godzilla because of 54. It's common sense here people. Just like final wars, where they say the 54 was still around and was that Godzilla in that same movie. It's not rocket science. If a monster like Rodan can revive from 56 in 64, why can't it be said that Toho ignored the 54 death and let him be in 62? 

Ill agree it wouldn't be a stretch for Destoroyah to just show up after introducing the Oxygen Destroyer. They did it before.

But Godzilla vs Destoroyah never got its respectable theater release here in the states. Many audiences never even heard of Destoroyah or what its origin is about. The reason King Ghidorah, Rodan and Mothra are being introduced is because they all had there run in the states and on American tv. Many veiwers ages 80 to 5 can recognize these monsters. they are still part of the American unconscious of monsters.

Unfortunately for Destoroyah, while becoming an important character for G-fans in the series, doesn't quite hold a long deserved torch like the other classic monsters do. I think he will be over looked as a possibility to join the Monsterverse. I hope I am wrong.

That all aside, I think this is an interesting way to introduce a MUTO Destoroyah. For G-fans it wouldn't be insulting or degrading to bring this form of Destoroyah into the mix.

But old articles say that this Godzilla from Raids Again is the same Godzilla throughout the rest of the series. Its the same character through every film just different designs and suits.

Plus King Kong vs Godzilla only suggest that for some odd reason Godzilla was frozen inside an iceberg. Everyone knew exactly who that monster was without a second glance. they knew Godzilla was frozen in an ice berg years ago as common knowledge. they had no other set up as to why he was frozen there.

If it were any other Godzilla, it would have shown up from the sea like the other two Godzilla's before it did. how else would you explain Godzilla showing up from an iceberg? why not show up from a volcano, an island or a a ship wreck? They chose the  iceberg. There is no other way around it. Its the same Godzilla.

^I'm taking a page out of your book here and even saying continuity wasn't exactly part of the Showa series agenda, it doesn't matter exactly where he was frozen, it just matters where he ended up later in the next film to help a contrast of familiar events to carry the story along.

And it should be noted that monsters have "revived" throughout the Showa era. Look at Ghidorah the three headed monster. Shinichi Sekizawa wrote the script and has the original Rodan from 56 come back. I thought this was common knowledge? 

Kotm,

That is incorrect. I've pointed out already where raids again ends. It is nowhere near Hokkaido. It is near North Korea in the Japan sea. The original Japanese version of raids again shows that and they even say that's where he is. We can say that he broke off with an iceberg and drifted to the arctic, but clearly the arctic is on the other side of Japan in the North and off the coast of Hokkaido. The thing is, in Kong vs Godzilla, Godzilla attacks an arctic base and eventhen, it's not near Japan because they say he's heading home to Japan. "We knew the creature wouldn't last frozen forever, even if it took 200 years we knew he would return." We can take that as a follow up to raids again, but clearly Kong vs Godzilla does not acknowledge the events of raids again. The films themselves suggest this. 

I have never owned or upon my travels around certain toy shops came across these sets. Didn't they have similar sets for the Heisei series? Or am I thinking of something else?

This would be a fun set to start collecting. Any good sites to find these at?

He seems to have a mane, like a Chinese dragon 

I don't want to say much.  I have said enough. 

I wasn't right, nor was I really wrong. I had a feeling about 55 to 62 Godzilla. I would like to know more about 62 to 64. That's what started this whole conversation. 

But that's what started me to think that perhaps the way we see Godzilla begin and start each of the movies starts and ends has some contrast between movies in the Showa series. Thank you for confirming my suspicions about some of what I was saying. 

Nice idea. Respects the confirmation of a definitive winner.

I suppose I could also elaborate with some sources. Tomoyuki Tanaka's book (which most people here seem to accept as canon to some degree) says that Godzilla was frozen on Mikojima Island of the Kurile Islands, which are located north of Japan. The book also says that he was then carried to the North Pole, which I assume is roughly where he emerged in King Kong vs. Godzilla. Japanese Wikipedia's page on Godzilla also says "Although there are differences in appearance and contradictions on the story, the Godzilla that appeared from Godzilla Raids Again to Terror of Mechagodzilla is the same individual and is often called the second generation Godzilla" and cites no less than four different official informational books about the franchise.

On the topic of continuity, it is 100% confirmed that the Godzilla from Raids Again is the same individual from King Kong vs. Godzilla. This Godzilla is designated as the "Second Generation Godzilla," and according to Toho appeared in every film from Godzilla Raids Again through Terror of Mechagodzilla. The Showa continuity certainly isn't as strong or concrete as that of the Heisei series, but that wasn't really the priority. There's nothing in KKvG that "strongly implies" it isn't the same Godzilla. In fact, there's enough pieces there to match it up. Godzilla was frozen somewhere off the coast of Hokkaido in 1955, and in 1962 the first place he comes ashore after breaking out is Hokkaido. I'm not familiar with the exact location specifics, but for the film's purposes it's close enough. It's easy to assume that iceberg he emerges from broke off from the island in Raids Again and drifted for some distance. The characters also clearly know what Godzilla is and are noticeably panicked when he reappears. Akihiko Hirata's character even mentions how Godzilla thawing out was an inevitability, as they "couldn't expect him to stay frozen forever." It's not the most explicit continuity nod, but is at the very least lip service to Raids Again.

Flawless continuity isn't the priority of King Kong vs. Godzilla or the Showa series as a whole, but the changes to Godzilla's design or any other inconsistencies are simply the result of artistic liberties or oversight. Toho says that the 1955 and 1962 Godzillas are the same creature, and the pieces are there in both films to allow them to match up. I'm sure Godzilla's emergence from an iceberg in King Kong vs. Godzilla was due to the filmmakers' intention for it to be the same Godzilla.

New chapter again. Antarctica.

You have way more knowledge of that universe than do I. Still doesn't change my opinion on how I feel about what I saw. But what do I know right? Your right about one thing. We should get back on topic. Haha

I really think they should keep KVG  fighting just between the two. Not saying that there isn't room for more MUTOs in the film for the two main monsters to fight separately until the main event  

Hey I stand corrected. Still like to throw out theories out there. I don't agree about the time line for destroy all monsters. Yes it takes place in the year 1999 but it can't be in the same series time line with the Heisei series. But hey, we can all kind of interpret the series as we see it. 

Heavily agree with Godzilla: King of The Monsters

@Riggzamortis86,

"But the Godzilla in KKVG can't be the same from 54." Yes, it can. It didn't stop Toho in G2k and Megaguirus, along with final wars to say it is the same as the 54.

"Godzilla raids again- New Godzilla emerges along with anguirus. Godzilla gets trapped in ice." All correct, however, Godzilla is trapped in an icy mountain that is called Kamiko Island. It's an island located near Kurashima island heading towards North Korea in the Japan sea. The original Japanese version confirms this.

"King Kong vs Godzilla- Godzilla emerges from the icu tomb." also correct but, in the Japanese version Godzilla is located near the North in the Antarctic. Far away from where raids again ends. 

"Godzilla vs Mothra 1964 is the beginning of the trilogy that leads to monster zero. Godzilla is plunged into the sea." Some what correct. Godzilla is plunged into the sea near Iwa Island. He reappears in Ghidorah 64 in the Pacific ocean. However, monster zero did not acknowledge Mothra. "King Ghidorah was driven from earth, but only at the combined strength of Godzilla and Rodan." Funny it also took Mothra in the previous film but don't mention her.

"Invasion of Astro Monster 1965- Ghidorah once again is defeated retreating to outer space." Again, the ending is the same as Kong vs Godzilla. While we acknowledge Kong won, because he is last one seen on film, why can't the same be said for Ghidorah? 

"Destroy all monsters 1968." Takes place in 1999. Correct. However, it takes place after the events of Terror of mechagodzilla 1975 and the entire heisei series. The heisei series ends in 1996. 

I'm not saying these things to go against your theories, but the truth and facts were just spoken. You don't have to take my word for anything. You can watch these films and use Google as well. You'll get the same thing I just said though. 

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Thank you. I love these topics and conversations.

Oh you mean "Beast from 20,000 Fathoms?" That thing was noted to be a huge influence. It was made just like King Kong with Dynamation right? And had a similar theme. Yeah that came out in June 1953. One year and 6 months before Gojira did. I heard that from one of the audio commentaries over Gojira that Tanaka did mention that movie as an influence. I'm sure others here can give better details of that comparison.

^I guess if you count that as a win, even though batman wanted Superman dead and even spent most of the movie obsessing and even dreaming about it! Making a pivotal plot point as to why they want to fight in the first place. But in one moment of coincidence having to share a mother with the same name still does not count as a win. it counts for a cop out. in my opinion it would have been better to see Batman break his rule about killing anyone and then see him self destruct over that dilemma after killing Superman. It will leave you with a sense of dread. perhaps a lesson of revenge and seeking out to destroy those you hate? Im sorry if you enjoyed the movie and if I am insulting your taste in movies. Who am I to say what is good and bad? but I was angry with the result of that outcome. That the much anticipated movie would try and make you all sit there and except that as a fight and win. no one ever really makes it clear and puts a tally next to Batman as a win. Its still chalked up there with all my examples as a bad "VS" movie.

It would be cool to see them team up after a battle. Its happened in Godzilla movies before. It just another ploy to sell tickets and not to upset one fandom over another.

I understand Kong was definitely inspiration for Godzilla, but I think the credit should really be going to the Rhedosaurus. That thing and it's entire story heavily influenced Godzilla's creation. 

Hey it makes sense, keeping in mind the time you mentioned about Godzilla's place at the time. I just make comments about what is shown to me on the screen. this was just a fun theory to run with everybody.

But yes, what I saw on screen was Kong winning. Plain as day. I must admit my theories are biased. But to me as a fan this was my way of looking in and making sense of it all. But no theory can fight the facts of what is portrayed on screen.

but its still a fun topic to ask opinions from everyone and debate. im trying to keep in topic of what Wingard said about the movie outcome is a debate? I didn't realize it was a debate. I thought it was pretty clear. so I thought about asking everyone and throwing this old theory of mine out there for food for thought.

The thing is Godzilla was no more Toho, Tsuburaya's, Honda's or Tanaka's "baby" than Rodan, Mothra, Varan, etc. Honda had only touched Godzilla once up to this point, he had been knee deep in stuff like Rodan, The Mysterians, Battle in Outer Space, The H-Man, etc. Returning to Godzilla was likely as far from his mind as it was in Toho's. The only reason Godzilla returned two years after King Kong vs. Godzilla was because the movie did so well. Toho eventually realized they could make bank by pitting their own popular monsters against each other, thus Mothra vs. Godzilla was born.

Everything I've read about Tsuburaya, especially at that point, claims he had the utmost reverence for Kong. As for Godzilla, it could've been Varan or Mothra in that role--Tsuburaya was excited to play with the creature whose movie helped inspire not just Godzilla, but Tsuburaya's entire special effects career. (It's just a shame that Tsuburaya had no love for the Kong costume.)

Again, we have to consider the times. Godzilla was no more their "baby" or franchise material than the other movies Honda and Tsuburaya had been churning out. Kong inspired Godzilla in 1954 and then Kong's marquee value helped make Godzilla a superstar in 1962. It only makes sense he would win.

riggzamortis86: there WAS a clear-cut winner in Batman v Superman. Batman kicked the crap out of Supes and was a hair away from killing him until that convoluted "Martha" arc.

And they can very much do both. Like I said before in my latest thread, one can win and a boss kaiju (be it Destoroyah or whoever) can appear just as he's about to finish the other off leading to the team-up. Just because no one dies doesn't mean the guy on his back didn't lose, see: Goku vs. Golden Frieza in Return of F. Hell, Vegeta clearly beat him afterwards even though he similarly didn't get to deliver the finishing blow.

^Refreshing and overall agreeable opinion.

But the Godzilla in KKvG cant be the same from 54. The one in 54 died. I would think that its pretty clear what Honda wanted. The year KKvG was taking place in the present time. I know the Showa series has plenty of hiccups when it came to continuity. But if you look at where Godzilla begins and ends in the first 9 films. they are pretty close.

For these examples I will try to keep it simple and brief:

Gojira(1954) Godzilla dies. Bones in the water confirm it.

Godzilla Raids Again- New Godzilla emerges along with Anguirus. Godzilla gets trapped in ice.

King Kong Vs Godzilla - due to some warm temperatures, Godzilla is freed from an Iceberg{my fan theory is that it possibly broken off from the island he was trapped in from "Raids Again".} During fight with Kong, they fall into the water followed by an earthquake. Kong leaves, Godzilla's whereabouts are unknown. {This is where my theory gets more fun for everyone to follow}

Godzilla vs Mothra(1964)(This is the beginning of the trilogy in the showa series between this movie and Invasion of Astro Monster) - {my theory is that the hurricane caused Godzilla to be moved from one earthly tomb caused by the earthquake, to the construction site of the industrial area covered by the flood and debris in the beginning of the movie, we see mothra's egg being unearthed from infant island, why not Godzilla?}. Godzilla emerges from underground at the industrial construction site. At the end he is thwarted by the two infant mothra's, then is plunged into the sea cocooned in the kaiju's silk.

Ghidorah the 3 Headed Monster(1964)-We see Godzilla rise up from the ocean. Pretty much where we left off in the last movie. There are even some reoccurring characters from Godzilla vs Mothra. King Ghidorah is defeated, retreating to space. Godzilla is left with Rodan saying goodbye to their new found alliance with infant Mothra.

Invasion of Astro Monster(1965)-Ghidorah is on Planet X, "The Controller" wants the help of Godzilla and Rodan. We all know what happens. Then at the end, Ghidorah once again is  defeated retreating into space, leaving Godzilla and Rodan still underwater. No siting from either one of them other than they are both in the water.

Ebirah, Horror of the Deep- Godzilla is asleep buried in a mountain side. {I know what some of you are going to say. That this movie was originally intended for King kong to star in and fight Ebirah, but since it doesn't, here's where I have fun with my continued fan theory. Remember, just my fan theory to give the first 9 Godzilla movies some continuity. Since we don't see Godzilla rise from the ocean in the last film, I theorize that his unconscious body, beaten by Ghidorah, drifts along the sea bed. The storm that surrounds Ebirahs island swept him up into the mountain and buried him} After he battles Ebirah and Mothra, sensing that the island is going to blow up jumps from the island and swims away unscathed.

Son Of Godzilla - we see Godzilla swimming to an island that holds an egg containing a little baby Godzilla.{My theory goes along with the last scene from the E,HOTD. Where we just simply seeing him swim away. My theory is that he is still traveling from the Red Bamboo island, and sensed Minya signal}.Goro makes an interesting comment on the inhabitance of the island. He jokes and says "This is an island of Monsters". We wont see that joke become reality until we get into the next installment. At the end we see Godzilla and Minya holding eachother in the snow. Going to hibernate.

Destroy All Monsters - {this is where my fan theory gets shaky. but try and follow me.} The year is 1999, Earth gathers all of its monsters and places them all in one place, Monsterland. Where we see Godzilla and Minya(still a toddler) trapped on the island. {my theory is that since Godzilla and Minya are hibernating together, that made them easy targets to become incarcerated and relocated to Monsterland.}

After this is All Monsters Attack. Where we see a boy dreaming of Monster Island. Cant back my theory behind this horse. Then the 70's Godzilla movies start and we see 2 sequels happen. Godzilla vs Gigan then Megalon. Then Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla and Terror Of Mechagodzilla. If you ask me there's plenty of continuity to be found in the showa series, if your looking for that in a series about giant monsters fighting each other.

 Once again I must again just say that this is my own theory growing up watching these movies. now I share it all with you to debate and react.

Don't want to get off topic with the "continuity" but a solid continuity is the heisei series. We've all come to accept that that series is a solid continuity, while the millennium films excluding the Kiryu saga are also a loose continuity and are each stand alone films. Toho during the Showa era didn't really apply much thought into a solid continuity. We don't know when King Kong vs Godzilla actually takes place as far as what year that is. The initial purpose was saying "we knew the creature wouldn't be trapped in there forever" when referring to the iceberg that is. While the ending of raids again takes place at an icy mountain, we know it's not the same as the drifting iceberg in King Kong vs Godzilla. It is heavily implicated that it is not the same. For all we do know, the Godzilla that appeared in King Kong vs Godzilla could be the same that appeared in 54. There's no real connection between Raids again and Kong vs Godzilla 62. 

I also want to point out the design of the tail. It almost looks like a thorn from a rose. Neat way to make his tail even more deadly.

I would by that for a dollar.

DAMN!!!!!!!

I guess only in anime can you show him that big. In any life action movie you could not really take in the size of a creature that big and make it look real in contrast to the rest of the scene. 

I would do the same damn thing.

We can still hope right? I guess time will tell. I think Toho doesn't like to be put in the corner. Being told what they can and cant do with there character they created, in a country where Godzilla reigns.

No matter what, I do believe there will be more Godzilla movies after GvK. Toho films or not.

I think no matter what, the 70's where important to the series. Tanaka stated that making Godzilla a good guy was a mistake, that he should of stayed with his roots with being a monster of destruction and fear(a theme I think is lacking in the monsterverse so far). I think because of the time and reflection he could have been right. But the 70's Godzilla films stood the test of time! They may have not boosted the ticket sales back in the 70's but they have carried on into the millennia!

That lack of life support and ticket sales was directly influenced by television. Why see one Godzilla movie a year when you can see a new monster every week! Yes the ultraman and other monster tv series where cheaper monsters and lacked any depth or character, but they where the flavor of the week. how can movies keep up with that? so toho may have given Godzilla another 6 years of lack luster stardom, but to me, a fan, it was a hell of ride! Hedorah? Gigan and Megalon? Mechagodzilla!? Are you kidding me!? They where all awesome! The fighting was better choreographed, the powers where incredible, and the explosions! They out did the explosions that the 60's!

Its just a shame about the money. when they keep using stock footage of the hay day films that's what made it seem cheap. I get why they did it, save the little money they had to get the picture done. But the 70's films where fun. They gave us some great memories.

If I had the power to go back in time and do anything with Toho and those films, I would not have changed a thing.

Seeing Godzilla return to his roots may have seen to be a better idea at the time, but he was still growing as a character. But time showed us that Godzilla is timeless and unstoppable. Even through foreign countries changing his identity, some silly cartoons, and a few setbacks, you cant stop Godzilla on screen and in real life. It shows you he can be flexible and multilateral. You cant stop the King!

And in my opinion, I would watch any 70's Godzilla film over G14 and G98. I think I don't need to explain myself to any of you on that one.

To G.H.(Gman), I respect your fountain of knowledge of such matters like these in terms of Godzilla fandom, but I must disagree with some of the statements you have provided.

"We need to remember that these are extremely visual movies--Japanese film is a cinema that shows. If Godzilla was engulfed by debris and caught underground, Tsuburaya would have been the first to execute it in some form."

If they wanted to show Kong win they could have shown him win just like my theory is just a fun theory. It is exactly what you say it is, a justification of why Godzilla (my hero) lost to what seemed like an easy win to another monster. But I think they(Honda, Tanaka) didn't want to see their brain child lose. They have a stake in that fight as well. But maybe subconsciously they continued the series along with Godzilla appearing out from underground of that site. They wanted to hint a wink to the audience about why Godzilla just suddenly rises from the ground near the sea.

Just like Godzilla appeared out of an iceberg in the beginning of KKvG. (Like I stated earlier I have never seen the original Japanese version and I am not aware of any dialogue that suggest that the characters even mention why Godzilla just appears out of an iceberg other that being originally trapped there from when "Raids Again" ended) So Im only basing my theories on what the movie tells me. Toho likes to keep up with some kind of continuity with the Godzilla movies (most of the time).

So back to my original point was that if they wanted to show kong physically beat Godzilla they would have shown it, just like my theory of they didn't want him to be seen engulfed by the earthquake they would have shown that. My theory just merely implies what I think the Honda and Tanaka might of felt.

They highly respect Kong, he was their muse and inspiration for Godzilla, but Im sure they didn't want their baby to get beaten by their inspiration and show their baby beat there inspiration. They gave Godzilla enough scenes where its clear he is superior to Kong, then gave Kong a trump card to fight back and look like he beat the bad guy. Because lets not forget, Godzilla was a bad guy. Kong was a sympathetic character, just like the original King Kong movie had. He was captured, brought to Japan against his will in order to be sponsored to sell medicine like some mascot, then used once again to fight Godzilla against his will in order to save Japan. They wanted the viewers to sympathize with Kong. So for Japanese viewers to be ok with Godzilla losing to an "American made monster", they made Kong a sad story.

But they gave a good enough implication of why Godzilla losing to a land monster who cannot breathe underwater. Then giving a wink to audiences in Godzilla vs Mothra when he rose from underground(kinda weird for Godzilla to just suddenly rise from underground, he is a sea monster. he would have shown up from the sea or lake, hence the wink from the previous film) I have not read these production notes that some of you have(and I would love to know titles of books or articles of so that I can keep up with some of the topics some of you know so much about so I seem like I know what Im talking about). I am simply reacting to what the director is showing me on and off the screen.

But that's why I love bringing these topics up, we as fans should always debate and hear one and other out. Im just a fan, and I just wish to share my fandom with all of you.

Kong won. Its right there for all to see, I just want to start a fun dialogue and perhaps pick all of your brains on the matter. Thank you all for participating.

While it is clear that Kong is indeed the winner, we have to look at what's happened within these years since 62. Godzilla has had more films than Kong has and perhaps has became more popular now. But that's only due to the 1962 film. 

Let's not forget the ending in Monster Zero is identical yet, for some reason people are still saying Ghidorah lost when it's very clear he is last seen while Rodan and Godzilla are not. Sure, he's flying back to outer space, but he is still the last one seen. 

Gman makes an excellent point. The fact is Kong vs Godzilla 62 does not acknowledge the events of Godzilla raids again, and Mothra vs Godzilla 64 does not acknowledged the events of Kong vs Godzilla 62. The Showa era is a very "loose" continuity. It even shows that with Ghidorah the 3 headed monster because the original Rodan from 56 revived in the volcano.