Comments (Page 135)
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Despite what others say, you’re correct in your assessment SasquaDash and it’s refreshing. The fandom should be a place of respect, and as you noted GMans elitist attitude and others like him can succeed in making the fandom a toxic place to participate in, and that’s been the case on this site for years.
If I had to guess, his response about Borestein stems from a personal dissatisfaction with their own failed filmmaking career, and their wishes to make what they think would be better, with no one else’s opinions mattering due to them being a “superior fan”. It’s unfortunate because he does write good Godzilla content, but the ego sours it.
Being rude and arrogant can be an enjoyable quality if the person doing it isn’t completely serious and can admit when they’re wrong. Just another high ranking member of a fandom with no power outside of the internet. Keep your head cool and don’t let others stomp on your enjoyment of Godzilla :)
I am kind of skeptical about them doing a "monster only" movie with Godzilla. Heck, given Toho's recent trend of wanting Godzilla to be non-expressive (a trend that I really don't like), I'm not sure if Legendary would be able to do it. However, I do think that they could easily do it with Kong, considering that he is very human-like and expressive, and I think that a movie focused on visual storytelling could be extremely interesting. One of my favorite things about GvK (besides the fights) were the scenes focused on Kong himself, showing him exploring the Hollow Earth and finding traces of his kind (like the temple and the axe) and revealing hints of a much larger story and the history of the Titan War. The fact that those scenes were done completely through visuals and had no dialogue made those moments interesting and it really helped to expand on Kong's characterization. I think a movie where they do more of that could be really interesting and entertaining.
I'm not trying to take my frustrations with Gman out on any of you. The thing is that I really don't want to pick fights with anyone here, but I do find it frustrating that Gman constantly has this condescending attitude towards any one who has a different opinion than his and the fact that he takes any to bash the MonsterVerse and anyone who likes it or is involved with it as a way of boosting his own ego. The fact that he threw juvenile insults at Max Borenstein for merely suggesting an idea that he though could be interesting and then used it as another opportunity to bash the series as a whole WAS uncalled for. And the fact that he responded to my criticisms with his snarky, immature "Bill me" comment and him accusing me of "conveniently targeting" him was even more so. Having different opinions is one thing, but it shouldn't give you the right to be an arrogant jerk who constantly treats others like crap. He acts as if his opinion is superior to ours and that he has the "final say" when it comes to this franchise (which is why I brought up "gatekeeping") and it's really getting to the point where it's unpleasant to even attempt a conversation with him. I know it's pointless to even bring it up, but at the same time behavior like this shouldn't be ignored and normalized. If it is, these forums will only become a cesspool of hatred an constant fighting, and that's the last thing I want. I came here because I wanted to discuss Godzilla and Kong with other fans, I don't want to be constantly fighting.
Also, sorry for not noticing the messages that you've sent, I've been busy with some other things and I haven't been remembering to check them.
"I find it ironic that the Reiwa series gets praised for being "experimental", yet somehow the MonsterVerse gets criticized for wanting to do something unique."
this is only about having a movie without humans. MOnsterverse has had some great original concepts like a parasite to Godzilla and the hollow earth, and most criticism has been on a writing level.
Reiwa has been criticised, most notably the godzilla anime trilogy, FOR TRYING NEW THINGS.
Having a movie with godzilla and new humans is just a direction a lot of people really dont want to see.
I dont want to assume this but dont tke out your frustration with G. H. (Gman) on the rest of us.
Also ive been trying to message you. Are you getting them, the You button at the top should be green if so.
They never said that they would ditch the humans entirely.
Just because they bring up the idea to make a film directly focused on the monsters doesn't mean that the entire series will go in that direction. They can still make MonsterVerse movies that focus more on the human story in the future. One potentially experimental film won't dictate the entire series. Plus they never said that it would be completely human-less, only that it would have minimal humans.
Honestly, I think the idea of having a story set through the perspective of the monsters could be interesting if given the chance. People complain about the humans constantly spouting exposition, so imagine a story that's directly told through visuals and that expands on the characterizations of the Titans themselves. Imagine a movie focused on Kong exploring the Hollow Earth, finding traces of his species, allowing the visuals to piece together a much larger story that flesh out, not only the history of Kong's species, but the history of the other Titans and Hollow Earth. Think of something like Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal, and how it was able to tell it's stories without dialogue and relied on the visuals and expressiveness of the characters. I think the MonsterVerse could do something similar. Sure it might be different and a bit risky, but how can know if the idea can work or not if they don't try it.
I find it ironic that the Reiwa series gets praised for being "experimental", yet somehow the MonsterVerse gets criticized for wanting to do something unique. I've seen fans demanding that Legendary to something "more interesting" with the series, but now those same fans are bashing the mere thought of doing something different. It seems a bit hypocritical. If the Reiwa series gets a pass on doing whatever they want under the guise of being "experimental", then shouldn't the MonsterVerse have the chance to do something experimental as well?
Or does the ability to do something different only apply to the Toho films?
I think whether you enjoyed the Monsterverse films to far or not, many of us can agree, movies like this do NEED human characters. As GMan made point of above, Godzilla and Kong both mirror Human specific / societal issues. Beyond the spectacle of giant CGI monsters beating each other up, it's their deeper, more profound connections to the Human subplots that make them so notorious and sets them apart from other Monster movies. It's like saying make a Jurassic Park movie without Humans... the Dinosaurs are a direct reflection of man's rape of the natural world and arrogance to assume we can play creator. If you subtract the Human characters and only leave the Monsters, you're left with a documentary like Walking with Dinosaurs.
They need to write better arcs for the human characters, not ditch them entirely.
My main problem is how lazy this seems to me. KOTM tried having an interesting human story, which got way too dependent on the kanji story and suffered in execution, and GvK didn't even try and used fast pacing to keep the story from bogging down. Giving up after two tries seems weird to me.
Well that is a stupid idea. Just admit you don’t know how to write compelling human characters. Monsters are cool and you can never go wrong with focusing on them more, but without humans to drive the plot and add intriguing story elements, you might as well be a nature documentary.
Duratok, and HinikunaGoji don't have a history of being condescending towards anyone who has a different opinion from them.
Calling someone out on rude behavior is not "convenient targeting". The fact that you insulted a guy's entire career because he suggested an idea for a movie you didn't agree with was really juvenile and uncalled for and your sarcastic "Bill me" response was even more so. I find it ironic that you praise things like Singular Point for being "experimental" and "doing new things with the franchise", but when the American movies try to bring up an experimental idea you immediately bash it and use it as an excuse to insult the filmmakers. At this point, I personally don't care if you hate the MonsterVerse (that's your own opinion). My problem is that you take any opportunity to insult others who think differently than you and you use it as a way of trying to act superior. I'm not actively trying to start conflicts, but at the same time, I'm not going to sit around and pretend that "everything's fine" and that treating others poorly is okay. Having a different opinion doesn't give you the right to treat others like crap. You've claimed in the past that this is just "how online communities act", but it shouldn't be. We should be able to discuss our thoughts on something maturely, rather than acting like immature jerks who treat others like garbage for having different thoughts. This type of behavior shouldn't be normalized. Most fandoms get a bad reputation from people within them acting this way, and the last thing I want is for the Godzilla and Kaiju fandom (and it's public image) to be damaged by arrogant behavior from certain fans. If you really want to turn these forums into a toxic dumpster fire, fine, but all it's doing is harming the fandom's image.
Also, here's a definition of gatekeeping:
SasquaDash,
Gatekeeping, eh?
Question: Is Duratok, and HinikunaGoji going to get the same bill for making fun of Borenstein or is it reserved only for people who, "don't like the MonsterVerse?"
Likewise, I'm sick of your convenient targeting. You're the one who engaged with me on these topics each and every time--So for the third time, but undoubtedly not the last, if you wish to discuss this in depth my PMs are open.
Look, I don't know what your problem is, but you're condescending attitude towards anyone with a different opinion from yours is getting really obnoxious. I came here because I wanted discuss a franchise that I love with fellow fans, but this gatekeeping attitude is honestly making this whole experience unpleasant.
That's pretty immature. The guy suggested an idea that he thought could be interesting (honestly, a movie shown through Kong's point of view could be an interesting concept). There's absolutely no need to throw juvenile insults at the guy and attacking him for some of the things he worked on. I get that you don't like the MonsterVerse, but that type of arrogant, immature, attitude is kind of uncalled for. All it does is make the fandom look bad.
"Saboteur, masquerading as a bad Hollywood writer, says the genre where monsters are a mirror for humanity dealing with socio-economic, environmental and traumatic topics should ditch the humanity and just be an empty mirror."
Thats perfect.
Duratok pretty much nailed it. Headline should probably read: "Saboteur, masquerading as a bad Hollywood writer, says the genre where monsters are a mirror for humanity dealing with socio-economic, environmental and traumatic topics should ditch the humanity and just be an empty mirror."
Hopefully Legendary won't follow the wishes of a guy who made a television series flop from a Spielberg movie.
HinikunaGoji
true but the oxygen destroyer is still in away based off the nuke via making a worse nuke
I hate to correct you, but the oxygen destroyer wasn't an allegory for the nuke. Godzilla was, the oxygen destroyer was used to show the only way to get rid of the effects of an atomic bomb was with something much worse.
>
Again in the monsterverse, it went back to its roots as a human weapon.
So your complaint against aliens appearing in the monsterverse is invalid since the Oxygen Destroyer being an alien device was only in the non-canon comics.
I mean, i am not really opposed to it but i don't really support it either. I mean, sure the concept is good and could be used for something interesting, but i personally don't see why they should be added.
Also yes i forgot the dates about the oxygen destroyer
great idea a movie entirely about the war between the Gojira and kong war
Captain Cold
And the comics came after the original movie, the original oxygen destroyer was made by Daisuke Serizawa; a Human, specifically a Japanese war veteran. The oxygen destroyer is an allegory to the nuke, its creator wanted to make a new renewable energy and it ends becoming a weapon.
Again in the monsterverse, it went back to its roots as a human weapon.
So your complaint against aliens appearing in the monsterverse is invalid since the Oxygen Destroyer being an alien device was only in the non-canon comics.
*one demensional
autocorrect
We’ll, now they need to worry about one deme sip all monsters
Just realized my first paragraph makes no point and just is random information.
Movies with Mechagodzilla made by humans.
Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla 2
Godzilla against Mechagodzilla
Godzilla Tokyo SOS
GvK
Movies with Mechagodzilla made by aliens
Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
Terror of mechagodzilla
I just thought this was interesting
My comment was mainly focused on Godzilla.Kong can talk and have dialogue and is essentially a connection between humans and Titans at this point.
It also seems lazy to me
MonsterVerse writer 1: "Man, writing compelling humans is HARD!"
MonsterVerse writer 2: "I know, right?! It's impossible!"
MonsterVerse writer 1: "What if...we got rid of the humans entirely?"
MonsterVerse writer 2: "Of COURSE! You can't be criticized for writing one-dimensional humans if you don't *have* any humans!"
That's more or less how I imagine this all played out.
That's actually a great idea. Perhaps they could do a non-canon/alternate universe final wars? I don't know, it's kinda early for that. Shin godzilla/godzilla earth are also good options
I feel like they could easily have a movie focused directly on Kong, told through his point of view, focusing on visual storytelling. Godzilla: Dominion was also directly told from Godzilla's point of view. So I think, if done right, they could pull it off.
Yep. Maybe the muto prime could stalemate it but it's not canon i think
I think it was made by aliens in a comic but yes it's made by humans in the movies.
Also i have no problem with them changing mecha's origin but i'm just saying that aliens are kind of pointless to be in the monsterverse
@Captain Cold
The Oxygen Destroyer has always been made by Humans in the Godzilla multiverse
Mechagodzilla in the Showa and Anime Trilogy series were the only alien origin Mechagodzilla.
Mechagodzilla in the Heisei series was made from the remains future human's mechaghidorah, which was reconstructed by present day humans into mechagodzilla
Mechagodzilla in the Millennium series was made by humans built on the remains of a dead godzilla.
So why do you have a problem with Mechagodzilla being made by humans in the MonsterVerse series?
I mean, they pretty much changed up the origins of mechagodzilla and the oxygen destroyer as they are made by humans. I don't see why they would use aliens, and it would be a plot hole tbh
I hope so but the only stories they could really adapt are space godzilla or maybe a rodan/gigan spinoff. Destroyah/Biolate isn't mainstream enough to adapt, and while yes fans like me will know who they are outsiders won't. Almost everyone knows who godzilla is even if you didn't see the movies, same with kong because they are pretty much cultural icons, Another example is that Everyone knows who superman is but they probably don't know who metallo is for example
I am honestly very happy about this. But the thing is that they have pretty much did everything, I would love to see the monsterverse continue but i really don't know where. They could do a zilla or a gigan spinoff but that's about it. Maybe the space godzilla story? I think a soft reboot or an "alternate universe" with the same actors and characters would be great
Also no mention of a godzilla movie, i wonder if toho will give them the rights.
“Given the success of Godzilla vs. Kong, I’m kind of hoping in whatever the next phase Legendary decides to do that we would see that. I think it’d be pretty cool. I think it is possible. It would be very ambitious. I think ambitious in that Mad Max: Fury Road way. I think it’s totally possible to do that with the absolute minimum amount of human characters and really characterize the creatures.”
This comment really worries me. I dont like this idea at all. I get that using the monsters as main characters is not tried before, but honestly it seems lazy and a lack of effort to try and write an engaging story with good humans. Also humanizing them would take away what makes them interesting to me.
UPDATE 08/06/2021:
Actuals, put Godzilla vs. Kong's 5th weekend at 1.75 Billion Yen. ($15.92 Million). It made $375,706 for the weekend.
Estimated attendance still sits around 1.13 million. (Box Office Theory)
g-man fan,
There is no such thing as Godzilla: Desolation. That was a fan invented title that's been plastered all over fan posters.
The next Monsterverse movie has been suggested to be Kong-centric.
Additionally, here is the original source for SasquaDash's post:
Godzilla vs Kong Writer Teases Future MonsterVerse Movies - Screen Rant
I knew it wasn't over but what about Godzilla desolation
