Godzilla 2

AUTOBOT_CROSSTIES - I very much enjoyed your theory! I especially appreciate the fact that you want Ghidorah to maintain his extraterrestiral origins; for me, that is an extremely important aspect! Thank you very much for taking the time to formulate this hypothesis and share it with us! :)

"the Muto are prey themeselves, prey for Ghidorah"

Hahaha! I actually love that concept. Not only does it put the MUTOs in their place, but it establishes King Ghidorah as a much, much greater threat to both mankind and Godzilla.

I actually had a thery that the muto have the emps beacuse of ghidorah possibly havigna eltric bite of sme sorts beigna reference to his gravity beams. Also a nostalgic as the space thing is I don't think it's goign to be that way in the movie.

Well I'll Be honest i really couldnt think of a way to bring in Rodan. Its a mystery to me on how Edwards wishes to bring him in more or less. All I persnally can think of is Rodan is a surviving creature sleeping since the age of the Godzilla species and was awoken by the fight with the MUTO and nnow flyin around the world

the fight must be in tokyo!!!!

Really it doesnt but it would be nice to see a Tokyo battle, like in the Heisei era battles could be fought in Osaka or Hokkiado

I pretty much see this following Ghidorah the three-headed monster, with the 3 good monsters fighting amonst themselves while Ghidorah is built up, then after one of the three good monsters who it has shown are strong in their own right due to the fights they've had with Godzilla ending in a draw getting wiped out by Ghidorah to show how superior he is, then the last 2 end up fighting him together.

If your theory is correct then just like the Muto, Godzilla will kick their butts. You cant touch the king even if you get a good lick off on him hes just gonna come back and kill you

Godzilla by himself could take on and defeat Ghidora. A more likely scenario is Ghidora defeating Rodan and Mothra showing off how powerful he is which would leave Godzilla as the last hope. 

"Godzilla by himself could take on and defeat Ghidora."

Based on what information do we know this for sure?

Godzilla has beaten King Ghidora in decisive fashion in the Heisei series. Granted, this is a different series and a different Godzilla, but if he can beat two mutos on his own, he can certaintly beat KG on his own. I just think having him get help from Mothra and Rodan makes him look weak.

^Question do you consider the MUTOs were high level opponents compared to other monsters that Godzillas have fought?

DURP004

Do you mean, do I think the MUTOS are tougher than previous Godzilla opponents?

Depends on who you're comparing them to. Are they tougher than say King Ghidorah? The Kamikiras?

Also, define high level.

@Ray Burrberry,

What he is basically asking is, do you think that the Mutos are tougher than any other monster Godzilla has fought, and how high of a level would you put them? Example, above Destroyah, Spacegodzilla, super mechagodzilla, original king ghidorah. 

Granted, this is a different series and a different Godzilla, but if he can beat two mutos on his own, he can certaintly beat KG on his own. I just think having him get help from Mothra and Rodan makes him look weak.

But you don't know how powerful King Ghidorah will be. What if he's the kind of monster that can take out 12 MUTOs at once? If we want any kind of suspense and any real awe with King Ghidorah he should be the kind of monster that outclasses Godzilla. Getting help shouldn't make Godzilla look weak, it should make King Ghidorah look formidable-- Just like the Showa series. There's currently no indication of how King Ghidorah will be presented and assuming Godzilla can take him out on his own is literally based on nothing. What if the writers make King Ghidorah the most powerful giant organisim? 

@GMAN2887

I'm all for presenting King Ghidorah as more powerful and formidable as Godzilla as it would make for a greater villain and obstacle for Godzilla to overcome. What I don't want to see is a remake of Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster wherein the same three monsters ironically team up to defeat one foe. I also don't want to see Godzilla get overshadowed in his own film yet again by three other monsters making their big budget Legendary debut. 

@DURP004

@BIGBADBEN

I wouldn't classify the MUTOS as very high level but somewhere in the middle. The Godzilla opponents I consider high level are King Ghidorah, MechaGodzilla, Mothra, and Destroyah. I have Mothra as high level due to several battles and victories over Godzilla. I don't believe the MUTOS are anywhere as tough as KG, MG, or Destroyah but they did give Godzilla 2014 a run for the money. 

Ok, so let me get your logic straight here. You wouldn't put the mutos on the same level as Ghidorah, but your logic behind why he wouldn't need help vs Ghidorah and could "certainly beat him" is based off the fact he beat 2 mutos. Well.........I'm at a loss here.

I've also communicated that Godzilla has beaten King Ghidorah one-on-one before in the Heisei series. The question is do you believe that Godzilla can beat KG on his own?

I mean after he got hit by stronger nukes making him bigger and stronger than he ever was before, and the fight was still pretty close. There's also the fact that when he came back as mechaghidorah the fight ended either as a draw or in Mecha king ghidorah's favor depending how you look at it. You keep pointing out Godzilla took on Ghidorah 1v1 and won in heisei. Ok well in Ghidorah the Three headed Monster, Monster Zero, and Destroy All Monsters Godzilla needed help to do it. So that's just as much.

Do I believe that Legendary Godzilla can beat Ghidorah on his own? That answer is a resounding No, due to the fact Rodan and Mothra will be in the next movie with him.

@DURP004

Do I believe that Legendary Godzilla can beat Ghidorah on his own? That answer is a resounding No, due to the fact Rodan and Mothra will be in the next movie with him. 

Okay, we don't know for sure that Rodan and Mothra will be allied with Godzilla. All we know is that Legendary has been given permission to use these characters..

And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?

I'd rather have the  solo Godzilla who can take on 2-3 opponents at a time rather than the one who appeared in the Showa films you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the way Godzilla and those films were handled worked for it's time. But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king. You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters. 

@Ray Burrberry,

Nothing can be further than the truth about Godzilla. The fact is the showa came first. Ghidorah was so strong in those movies Godzilla had to get help from others in order to beat Ghidorah. Now the Ghidorah in the heisei films is actually lesser in terms of toughness. It may be taller and heavier, but it wasn't that space demon. It was created by the atomic bomb the same way Godzilla was in 1954. Godzilla in the 1991 film was created by modern day atomic, nuclear energy making him bigger and far more powerful than the original. Godzilla was on the brink of defeat against the Mutos if that explosion didn't occur. 

Now, we do know that Mothra and Rodan are in it with king ghidorah, but my guess is they'll fight each other before ghidorah arrives. You're right that Godzilla did evolve to be able to handle his own against Ghidorah in other films, but who is to say that Ghidorah won't be like that space demon he was in his debut film? 

If the company of Legendary is smart, they'll make Ghidorah seem indestructible. It will make things more interesting in terms of how the other monsters will beat him. It won't be a remake of Ghidorah the three headed monster. You have to remember that Gareth Edwards is going for that realistic approach. 

"And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?"

It says he's a monster that can do what it takes to win. Listen if we're going to root for a monster and feel empathy for him the next development is logically pitting him against something that outclasses him. There's nothing wrong with that and it makes Godzilla's battle both more suspensful and more interesting. He's borderline heroic in these films-- Plenty of heroes get help defeating their foes.

"I'd rather have the  solo Godzilla who can take on 2-3 opponents at a time rather than the one who appeared in the Showa films you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, the way Godzilla and those films were handled worked for it's time. But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king."

You mean like how Biollante rose his tempature and sent him back to the sea? Or how Godzilla needed human intervention in order to beat Heisei King Ghidorah? Or how he couldn't stop Mecha-King Ghidorah in Tokyo? Or how two giant butterflies dumped him in the ocean and he decided not to immediately return? Or how he needed help to beat SpaceGodzilla from G-Force? Or how Kiryu beat him twice?

This "unstoppable true king" nonsense is the dumbest, most ridiculous, cockamamie excuse to forfeit a potentially more interesting battle yet. I'd rather have an interesting storyline and suspensful stakes that make me wonder how Godzilla will ever be able to win the battle instead of resigning myself to a confident win so we can call Godzilla "unstoppable" or a "true king". That's ridiculous. It's also bad plotting.

This is one reason why the early Showa films are so much better. Instead of fan pandering just to make Godzilla look strong, they actually put him in situations/battles where the stakes were against him.

"You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters."

In 61 long years this hasn't happened, why would it now?

I mean, pretty much this post above me.

@GMAN2887

This "unstoppable true king" nonsense is the dumbest, most ridiculous , cockamamie excuse to forfeit a potentially more interesting battle yet.

Thanks for putting that so eloquently GMAN. You know, up until this point I've been enjoying a nice little debate with you guys without implying that anyone's opinion is dumb and ridiculous.

I respect your opinion and take on the subject as well. 

Well, nice debating with you. 

Ray Burrberry,
Although that does seem directly stated at you, I meant it more as a generalization that you may or may not have been a part of and I apologize. That doesn't take away from the fact that I believe this is a poor reason to forfeit a potentially more interesting conflict in any film.

And by giving a resounding thumbs down to the possibility of Godzilla beating Ghidorah on his own, what does that say about Godzilla?

The same thing that every Godzilla's had. Name one series that Godzilla's gone without any help, and won. If you look most of the time Godzilla gets no help those are the movies where he loses. King Kong vs Godzilla, Mothra vs Godzilla, Godzilla vs Biollante, Godzilla vs Mothra, Tokyo SOS just to name a few. In all those movies he got no help and lost, compared to the movies where either monsters or humans intervened to help him in some way which always comes out as wins. You seem to associate assistance with Showa, but truth is every series he's gotten help. Showa, Heisei, Millennium, and now Legendary.

But eventually Godzilla evolved to where he became more unstoppable and a true king. You don't want people debating who the true king is after Ghidorah gets beat by 3 monsters

Are we debating if Godzilla is the king now, because as I said he's always gotten help with wins, and generally is solo in losses.

Not starting an argument or anything but, I think you all are missing the elements on how and why Godzilla was defeated in those movies. Tokyo s.o.s. it was 3 against 1. Mothra vs Godzilla 2 against 1. Godzilla vs Mothra in 92, took 2 others to beat him. A loss is a loss but, when it takes more than 1 to beat you, that's what makes you king.

As far as Biollante, I look at it as a tie. They rose Godzillas temperature first and asked if he was immune to the A.N.E.B? Plus, Godzilla shot his breath on the lower jaw, then directly at her throat. Maybe not as bad as the female muto but she does take the shot. He then walked away. Just saying.

I consider Biollante a loss. Godzilla keeled over and Biollante was still standing. If we're not going to count that because human intervention rose Godzilla's temperature, then we have to take away all of Godzilla's wins that were won out of human intervention as well-- That includes Legendary's.

I think the real reason Godzilla gets no help in a given scenario is because he's the villain he's supposed to lose. When he's the monster we're cheering for the stakes are stacked against him and he needs help. Again this all comes down to dramatic writing-- Something I hope is looked at over pandering fan service.

@Gman2887,

You left out the part that Godzilla starred at Biollante for a couple of seconds to see if she was going to do anything. She was left standing, true, but Godzilla is a creature of intelligence. I think he knew she was done and decided to walk away. I do agree with what you said though. What it comes down to is how the viewer looks at it. 

When we cheer Godzilla the stacks are always against him, and when he is the villain, he has to lose. I agree wholeheartedly bro. 

I never got that at all from the scene. I figured his temperature had gone up and he was just drowsy. Didn't look like Biollante was done.

I mean, if he didn't know she was done, she would have attacked him back. She had to be done because she eventually died and disintegrated. Again, I'm not debating or making an argument. This is just how I saw it. Even to this day. I actually watched it before I tweeted destroyah last night. I'm all up for doing a live commentary on instead this Sunday if you're interested. :)

@GMAN2887

Hey thanks for the apology. Truly appreciated. 

I really enjoy the discussions on here. You all present great and informative stuff including perspectives that I've never considered before. Fun stuff!

My comments are really just concerns and the hope that Godzilla won't get relegated to supporting player in his own films, similar to how Batman took at backseat to Nicholson's Joker in that film. That was one of the criticisms that I heard about and agree with about Godzilla 2014 - that there appeared to be more MUTOS than the title character. 

^It is a concern I agree. And seeing as it's already happened with the 2014 film I wouldn't be shocked if it happened again. I don't think Godzilla taking out King Ghidorah would improve that though. He took out both MUTOs in 2014, but the fact is much of the film still focused on those monsters.

Double post.

King Ghidorah should be immense and powerful, seemingly undefeatable. I'm thinking he'll be  a bad guy, terrifying. It would make sense that his physical attributes (height, wingspan) be reflected in his powers. There should be gale force winds. The gravity beams would be nice, especially with what Legendary is capable of marshalling in terms of VFX/SPX.

I hope there's a lot of monster action, early on too. If Godzilla 2 hits the ground running, so to speak, I'll be happy. I think a lot of other people, fans and general moviegoers, will be also. I'm capable of appreciating a suspenseful build up as much as anyone. But, as Admiral Stenz said, "The cat's out of the bag, Doctor. No more secrets."

If there's suspense and intrigue, it should be employed more in the human narrative centering on Monarch, its clandestine operations, deception and role in the cover up regarding Godzilla's existence and that of the other monsters. Accordingly, I would like to see the characters of Dr. Serizawa and Dr. Graham return.

I don't really know if saying Biollante died is the correct wording, I saw it more as she beat Godzilla and left. Perhaps since Godzilla was defeated and the g cell experimentation was over Erika was finally at peace and could move on.

When your spirit is trapped inside a monster, the only peace you'll have is when the thing dies. Not the best example but, look at Tommy in pumpkinhead 2. His soul trapped in the monster to get revenge on the ones who killed him and on the ones who hurt ms. Olsey. The only way his spirit could rest was getting his revenge and afterwards, leaving behind the monster. 

Not to mention, Biollante' s cells along with Godzillas went into space before Mothra did thus Spacegodzilla was born.  If Biollante is the winner, how and why would she scream in pain and eventually disintegrate? 

Plus, she had her chance to retaliate but couldn't. Godzilla knew she was done. His temperature may have rose, but he still waited on her to see if she was going to do anything or not. After she didn't, he walked away to the water to cool himself back down. He starred at her for at least 5 seconds before doing so.