Comments (Page 399)
Latest comments by Godzilla fans on news, forum discussions and images!
"the radiation spewed by Behemoth is some sort of mystical healing radiation, because not all radiation is nuclear."
"I think the whole radiation healing thing is meant to be a "mystical" element to the titans,"
"Since this is a universe where ancient species fed off and ran on radiation, extrapolating that the Titan's radiation must be different from the kinds we know isn't really a stretch."
This is great and all, but why isn't it mentioned in the movie? The reason this comes off as so egregious and utterly stupid is because the entire genre is based on creatures harboring radiation that has caused considerable harm in films both within and outside of the Godzilla franchise. When we think "radioactive monster" in this genre, we not only have images of something deadly, but something that has, and is, leaving something deadly behind. It's been a staple of Godzilla, Rodan, Frankenstein Conquers the World, Ultraman, etc. Simply saying "the titans' radiation heals the Earth," is such a such massive deviation from the norm that it needed further explanation--And the filmmakers were too inept to do it or realize it. Even general audiences/non-fans I've watched it with give me a weird look during that scene. A friend of mine took the time to lean in and say, "That's not how radiation works." I tried to explain the rest of the franchise isn't like that, but here we're supposed to take it for face value, because radiation = good.
"Preaching a halt in all nuclear power is stupid, because there isn't any sort of suitable alternative that can take that load right now."
Of course there is. Solar energy has been proven, not just during the day, but capable of storing energy for night as well. Electrical power and cars have proven to be both cost effective and practical, governments just prefer to burn oil. And given all the hot air I'm reading in defense of a blatantly dumb movie (because "Monsterverse!"), I think wind powered generators could keep cities running, especially if comes from around these forums.
"The issue isn't the tech,"
I assume you mean radiation itself, which I wouldn't lump under the term "tech" per-say. I'd argue that it, in its pure form, it is indisputably deadly. There's more going on here than how we use and disposes of it. Radiation is harmful. Radiation may save lives to kill cancer, but why is it used to kill cancer? Because it kills tissue. Heat from the sun? Obviously radiation, but if we didn't have an ionosphere, the planet would be uninhabitable due to it. There is no getting around that radiation is dangerous and there's no problem with an entire franchise being dedicated to that reminder.
"And no, I'm calling bull on that bit about Three-Mile Island. The general scientific consensus is that the effects of the accident were very low to negligible."
Thank you for making my point--This is exactly the kind of deaf ear that makes the Godzilla series a necessity. Early reports, particularly in 1990, saw little to no effects, but those reports didn't factor in a number of variables left in the wake of Three Mile Island.
A 1997 reevaluation reported by four doctors stated, "associations were generally larger considering a 5-year latency, but were based on smaller numbers of cases. Results support the hypothesis that radiation doses are related to increased cancer incidence around TMI."
Further health news items, linked an increase to the plume, but weren't widely distributed due to the incident being old hat.
Yes. Science indeed.
No, but Fing Fang Foom is based off of Godzilla.
Oh wait he isn't from the movies.
Fing Fang Foom
What if it was gamma radiation?
Okay, so I think the best way to end this segment of the discussion is to say that Nature is managing fine in spite of the nuclear radiation, not thanks to it, except in that it's made people leave the area alone. The state of things currently isn't nearly as hyperbolic as you make it sound, but yes things aren't completely normal there by any means. The plant stuff was very interesting, it's not invincible to decomposition but the radiation inhibits the microbes and slows things down considerably.
They specifically say "Their radiation" is what causes life to sprout, not nukes. Since this is a universe where ancient species fed off and ran on radiation, extrapolating that the Titan's radiation must be different from the kinds we know isn't really a stretch. Could they mention that somewhere officially? Absolutely, but I don't think it's to crazy to assume that might be the case in the meantime.
Again, I'm not arguing with that, I'm questioning if every portrayal of nuclear energy in a G-flick must always be bad if the real message is "don't use this to hurt people and the environment." The issue isn't the tech, it's how we use and dispose of it that's causing the problems. Saying a problem is bad doesn't help anybody if you're not also trying to find actual solutions, or at least inspiring others to do so. Preaching a halt in all nuclear power is stupid, because there isn't any sort of suitable alternative that can take that load right now. What should be done is acknowledging the benefits of nuclear energy and working to reduce the impact it leaves behind while we look for something cleaner. Pro-nuclear doesn't have to mean "put a reactor up everywhere," just like being pro-environment doesn't have to mean "screw humanity." There is a balance in there, we just have to find it(Hmm, like the message of the movie...)
Uh, I think we mixed the metaphors a bit here. Batman is a character, not a propaganda mascot. Gojira(1954) is an anti-nuclear proliferation film, but Godzilla himself is a character now, and characters are allowed to have different interpretations and motivations.
And no, I'm calling bull on that bit about Three-Mile Island. The general scientific consensus is that the effects of the accident were very low to negligible. Three or four dissenting studies from noted anti-nuclear sources does not a convincing counterargument make. Should further studies from many sources back that up in the future I'll consider it, but until then majority rules in science. Oh, and please excuse medical professionals for taking the proper precautions when dealing with something that can be dangerous if not administered properly. Also please excuse construction workers for not leaving their feet next to running jackhammers, they really should have more faith in their technology.
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Godzilla had fought one of Kong's ancestors before or Godzilla and Kong are destined to fight.
Godzilla Jaeger? as in "Pacific Rim" Jaeger?
Hello.Well,I know exactly who would win.
OPK... that is kind of cool.
G.H. (Gman)
I think that the movie isn't saying "radiation is good for the environment." I think the whole radiation healing thing is meant to be a "mystical" element to the titans, and to reinforce why they're so important for nature. If it is pro-nuclear as well, which is still unconfirmed, it is meant to show the benefits of nuclear power from a war standpoint, and from one of the "cleaner" sources of energy we have. The main message, though, is to coexist with nature, not that radiation is good for the environment. Still, it might be more preferable to oil, BUT not the best option ever.
And, I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I think the pro-nuclear message in KOTM is set up for an anti-nuclear message in the next. The wide audience thought Godzilla was "good" in 2014, even though he was supposed to be neutral. So the same "pro-nuclear" argument could be made there, except MUTOS balanced it out to make it neutral. Now that Godzilla is the main radiation based Kaiju, how do they make nuclear power seem neutral when the big hero is a metaphor for nuclear power? Well, they double down, like in KOTM making him good, to set up him being practically evil in the next movie(s), which might be why MONARCH tries to get Kong to fight him, or something. I mean, they practically CONFIRMED it at the end of KOTM when the guy (forgot name of the guy lol) says "Glad he's on our side" and Dr. Chen says "for now." Then, for the rest of the series, he can remain a neutral force by accidentally or intentionally doing a bad thing per movie, followed by fighting a worse Kaiju. I feel like that's the angle they're trying to go for, to make Godzilla a neutral force rather than specifically good or bad. He just so happens to help us out of his own interest. I feel that kind of perfectly represents the viewpoints on nuclear power after the atomic bomb in Japan and America. In Japan, they began to fear it, resulting in Godzilla 1954 and Shin Godzilla (and basically all the other Godzilla movies, but mainly those two). In America, nuclear power helped them, but they still feared it in the Cold War, and recognized it wasn't an inherently good thing. I feel like that's how they portray Godzilla in the Monsterverse, as a neutral thing that ends up helping humans, or Americans in the context of WW2. Then if he does a bad thing, it would probably represent the Cold War or nuclear waste. I don't know, that's just my interpretation.
Also, once again, the metaphor for nuclear power thing could be a reference to WW2, as I said in my first comment. Just in case you weren't getting my references to WW2 because I ramble a lot, just go check that because I'm sleepy and too lazy to write it all again lol
Well it could be argued that the radiation spewed by Behemoth is some sort of mystical healing radiation, because not all radiation is nuclear.
"while mutations are still more prevalent than normal, (I'd reckon due to all the quarantine) the wildlife populations are probably higher than before the disaster."
The populations are up, but severely messed up, many of which are carriers that are effecting farms. And there's plenty of sources regarding the vegetation issue. Here's two major news/scientific sources regarding the plant nutrient problems:
Forests Around Chernobyl Aren’t Decaying Properly
30 years on, Chernobyl wildlife still feeling effects of nuke plant catastrophe
"...I'll spare you the fanfiction."
Which is the problem. It shouldn't be the fans' job to fill in the issues with these films. That's the filmmakers' job.
"Godzilla was made in response to that, not nuclear energy in concept."
Exactly. The Japanese had seen the devastation up close, not just from the war, but since it was sitting in between the two nations flexing their nuclear muscles. Godzilla is the side of the argument that decries this--Like it or not.
And why shouldn't it be? The argument is still going on and having something firmly represent and speak up for the side that was devastated is perfectly reasonable. After all, why do our dentists flee the room like their heads are on fire whenever our teeth are X-rayed? Within the plume of Three Mile Island there was up to 400% increase in lung cancer. 700% increase in Leukemia. Why do you think they haven't built one like those since the 1970s? Let's skip over the unpredictable earthquake issue which has plagued Japan multiple times and caused the Fukushima disaster. These plants pump out tons of nuclear waste and we have no idea what to do with the stuff. In the early 2000s plants from the US had 55 metric tons of nuclear waste and the number has only gone up. In the 1980s it was just dumped in the ocean, which is what Japan is now being forced to do with the waste left over from Fukushima. For a movie supposedly about "saving the Earth" and "nature's regrowth", being pro-nuclear certainly isn't very good for the environment--Unless you're retroactively making radioactivity good for it of course. I suppose it's the only way to get around the fact that writing a story that's both pro-nuclear and pro-environment is about as mindless as... well... the movie itself.
Sure, Batman can be Batman without bringing up his backstory. But if he starts fighting because he has fun doing it, instead of the higher cause based on that backstory, he's not Batman. Or at best, just Batman on a very surface level.
Maybe the oxygen destroyer mutates something in the waters into Destoroyah? Maybe it makes Godzilla more aggressive towards humans, or it makes him need to consume more radiation, thus causing him to attack nuclear plants?
TheLazyFish
Agreed, and I'd love if the MonsterVerse has been playing 4-D chess with us this whole time, but that remains to be seen. Personally, if the MV can make it past GvK I'm positive the Oxygen Destroyer will be coming back to bite them, along with the general message of "you invented this new thing just to kill without thinking about the consequences, now reap what you sow." It would perfectly retroactively contextualize how offhanded it's use was in KoTM, both lampshading it and integrating it into the world in a much more meaningful way.
Gomi: Ninja Monster
To add onto that, as mentioned at the end of KOTM, Godzilla will probably do something AGAINST humanity soon, therefore balancing out the good with bad and making him a neutral force. Once again, making nuclear power a neutral force, which is what it really is. It wouldn't be half bad if a Godzilla explored the pros and cons of nuclear power.
I loved the way you discuss the topic great work thanks for the share.
In the past, when the Godzilla species was still thriving, most Godzillas had different dorsal plates. Maybe one of them had the dorsal plates of KiryuGoji, or maybe even Zilla's dorsal plates.
Okay, so I'll admit I know very little hard facts about Chernobyl, but the Wikipedia page seems to imply that from the limited studies that have been done, while mutations are still more prevalent than normal, (I'd reckon due to all the quarantine) the wildlife populations are probably higher than before the disaster. So it might stink for humans, but "Nature" seems to be managing fine enough, which I believe is what people usually mean when they say stuff like that. I also found nothing on that plant bit and it frankly sounds incredibly suspect, but again I have done no real research, provide me some sources and I'll happily change my tune. I could easily propose a decent in-universe reason for the specific peculiarities of the Titan Radiation, but that's not really the point so I'll spare you the fanfiction.
Maybe, but what did they do after that? Mock it and denounce it, I haven't seen much of that for Legendary yet except in the US.
Toho is still the same company that made Shin, so they must have some integrity in there. And there's always the anime trilogy if you need something without all that Hollywood shlock gumming up the works. Also of note, when Godzilla was conceived nuclear power was just beginning to be explored, and it's first major use was in an act of war. Godzilla was made in response to that, not nuclear energy in concept. If the franchise at its core exists just to decry an entire branch of scientific and technological potential, than that's just backwards. Batman can be Batman without bringing up his tragic backstory every hour, the same goes for Godzilla. I imagine a similar falling out came after '98 for different reasons, yet here we are. One or two missteps does not invalidate everything that came before and can come after. If some bad writing and not shouting "Nukes bad" for the 35th time is what it takes for the whole franchise to lose it's appeal to someone, than...I don't know, but it just seems shallow. Why stop loving something because you didn't like the newest part of it?
I actually came up with this topic off the top of my head.
Actually, I kinda came up with that one before I joined Scified lol.
Titan Of Water
Exactly, but I think they should go further with that. The MAIN reason I'm in favor of the pro nuclear message in this one is so that they can make Godzilla a DESTROYER in another movie, like in GVK. It would show nuclear power on both sides of the spectrum, and set up the "Godzilla isn't quite a protector, he's a neutral force that usually ends up siding with us" type shtick which would exemplify nuclear power PERFECTLY.
If that didn't make sense, the main reason I support this pro-nuclear stance is so they can go back on it in GVK or a following Godzilla movie, and he'll be AGAINST us, as foretold at the end of KOTM. It'd show Godzilla, and nuclear power, as a neutral force, which is kinda what it is, and kinda what Godzilla was in the Heisei and Millenium eras. In my opinion, that would be kind of genius. Who knows, maybe in GVK Godzilla will be a "bad" guy again and Kong will be brought by Monarch to try and stop him? Maybe he'll be looking for some radiation fixes from nuclear plants since his home that was stocked with radiation was destroyed?
Chapter 39: Kaijin Part II
Nebula M78, Planet Land of Light
The Ultra, a race of cybernetic humanoids dwell and prosper in the City of Light. Land of Light once had a bright red star in its ancient past back when the Ultras were purely organic but has since burnt out leaving the planet and its inhabitants doomed to a cold extinction, however the Ultras altered themselves with cybernetic nanomachines that bonded to their hosts at a molecular level to survive this dark age; the Ultras then built the Plasma Spark to replace their extinct star and the Land of Light was restored.
Space Garrison Headquarters
The Ultra Guardians gather in a circle, a light emits from the floor as it displays a holographic representation of the galaxy. Father of Ultra approaches the hologram then he waves his hand through the hologram, the galaxy expands as the hologram zooms into one of the galaxy's spiral arms. There several star clusters are blanketed by a dark violet shroud representing the extent of the Xillien Empire, The Blue, Yellow, and Green shrouds were representing the Luphomoids, Xandarians, and the Zehoberei's territories. White represented the Ultra territories, while red represented the Zorkin horde; the rest of the galaxy was shrouded in grey. Three worlds came into view then images were displayed the events transpiring on these three worlds. On Planet Luphom, the Luphomoids soldiers were holding the lines as the Gyaos swarm their many cities and villages. On Planet Zen-Whoberi, the Zehoberei were retreating from a horde of Zorkins. Meanwhile on Planet Xandar, the Xandarians defense force is a fighting a loosing battle against a pack of Desighidorah.
Local Cluster, Planet Earth
Marvel Genetics CENTIPEDE Labs
Jiyang worrying about the fate of her husband all while pacing back and forth around the fluid tank holding Jinmen. Satoru and his entourage came marching into the labs, "Hey, you cannot be here? This is for authorized personnel only?" shouts one of the security guards. Satoru glares at the guard, his entourage quickly transform into their devilbeast forms. The guard doubled back as he felt an odd sensation coursing through his very being, the rest of Jiyang's staff also started to feel weird as Satoru and his crusaders were now free to do as they desire. Satoru approached Jiyang, the little boy grins darkly at her.
"Jiyang, Long time no see?" Satoru continued grinning.
"Not long enough, Satoru. Whatever you came here for, you can forget it"
"Oh and what do you think I came here for? Hmmm?"
"You want my personnel, they carry the beast genes you seek for your Devilbeast Crusaders"
"Hm, hahahahaha. You figured me out, well now all that is left is for us to kill you"
"I don't scare easily, little brat"
"Oh but it is not I who will bring your demise, old hag. It will be your own personnel"
"What?"
"Ivan, you can reveal yourself now" Satoru suddenly shouts.
A tall hooded robed figure in black walks into the labs, he approaches Satoru and Jiyang with inhuman speed. He removes one of his black gloves, revealing a red bony hand. he then extends his fingernails into sharp claws while pulling off his mask. His eyes glowing like molten gold and shrunken in the recess of his eye sockets, he lacked a define nose with only small nostril slits in place of it, he had no hair as his cranium stretched into a bony crown, he lacked lips as his teeth lie bare, and a set of outer jaws flared open to inspire fear. "Another batch to convert? Don't one of your Crusaders have a similar ability?"
"Your a correct but we don't have a lot of time so please make it quick" Satoru
"Eh, very well then" Ivan snarls, he approaches the security guard before placing his hand on his head, he inhaled swiftly before forcing open the guards eyes, "Look deep into my eyes! Awaken the beast that dwells within you!" Ivan hisses as his golden eyes intensifies, the security guards eyes started to glow in return. The guard's body twitched and contorted into its new shape, the muscles in the guards body began to expand as scales tore through his human flesh. The guards face twitched uncontrollably before a pair of alligator jaws burst out of his mouth, the guard raised his clawed hand to tear away the last vestiges of his human face before crashing his scaly knuckles into the ground; the guard now resembled a cross between an alligator and a gorilla. Ivan turned his gaze to the others, he flares his jaws open. The rest of Jiyang's scientists and security eyes glowed like molten gold, soon they too began the painful transformation into beasts.
Jiyang tried her best to remain calm but the sight of her co-workers transformations made her recoil in fear. The former scientists and security guards turn their beastly gazes towards Jiyang, now deprive of their humanity they brandish their claws, talons, horns, spikes, tentacles, fins, fangs, barbs, quills, and stingers. Jiyang smirked, she taps her tablet device. The sounds of bubbles churning and water draining echoed in the laboratory. Jinmen slowly opened his yellow reptilian eyes, he slams his claws against the glass; the glass splinters across its transparent surface before slamming his own head through his prison. The glass tank shatters into glass shards all around the alien turtle. He slowly pushed his forked tongue out from his toothed maw, "I AM FREE AT LAST! SO MANY FACES TO ADD TO MY SHELL CANVAS!" He glances over at Jiyang, "YOU HAVE A PRETTY FACE!"
Jiyang sneered as Jinmen stretches his arm out towards her, like lightning Jiyang dodges Jinmen's attacks. Jiyang ignites her own skin, cracks start form all over her body before she explodes into a radiant light. Her wings stretch out as she reveals her xillien form to her enemies. Satoru eyes widen, "What are you?"
"I am what you pathetic creatures can only dream of being, I am xillien" Jiyang's voice reverberates.
"Why couldn't the plant regrowth and Burning powerup just be things they put in because they needed a way to quickly restore the status quo or thought it would be a cool reference and set piece."
Initially I was willing to give it that benefit of the doubt. But even if that were the case then it makes the filmmakers look tone deaf and incompetent. In which case I could let it slide, but it also speaks to how dumb the movie really is.
And then the audio commentary was released where Dougherty mentioned Chernobyl as an example of Mother Earth regenerating after radiation had left it uninhabitable for so many years. There's this false perception that Chernobyl is now a flourishing haven of regrowth--But that's not true. Radiation doesn't outright kill nature, it messes it up. To this day vegetation in Chernobyl can not rot, making it impossible for nutrients from dead plants to return to the ground. Birds are born with smaller brains and shorter lifespans. And predators that have left the radiation zone are poisoning plants and livestock, making it difficult to put this stuff on the market.
So not only does Dougherty seem to believe this stuff, but it feels like he's spreading misinformation.
"Remember, Toho signed off on this."
They signed off on GINO as well. And why? To get back in to the international market.
That said I don't believe what Toho thinks is what makes it an "egregious offense." That's pitting principles against the whims of business. But if the argument is really principles vs. principles, then clearly this pro-nuclear stance is in violation of franchises very foundation. It's part of what sets Godzilla apart from other monsters and other monster franchises and to alter that so drastically helps close the loop that now he's just another other big monster. I know some fans who have left the franchise/fandom entirely because of it and while I can't bring myself to stop enjoying the majority of what came pre-Godzilla: King of the Monsters, I understand why they think it's an end point for Godzilla--On multiple levels.
TheLazyFish glad my Gojiverse has had an impact on monsterverse head canons and theories/hypothesis :)
I know I'll get flak for being "that guy," especially after this seems to have reached a conclusion, but I think we may be reading too far into this. Why couldn't the plant regrowth and Burning powerup just be things they put in because they needed a way to quickly restore the status quo or thought it would be a cool reference and set piece. It just smacks of that "the curtains are blue" joke. But that in itself is a different long discussion entirely, so I'll skip over that and move on to my more relevant point.
Remember, Toho signed off on this. They were there in the creative process, and they let it go through as we got it. If Nuclear power being used for good was such an egregious offence against the core of the franchise, why didn't they change it? Where's the outrage from Japan and the announcement of "Godzilla 2020" to right the wrongs done to their IP? Toho has said they look forward to working more with Legendary and WB, and yes I know money is a big factor, but '98 made plenty of money, why didn't that get sequels? I just feel like this is less of an issue than some seem to be making it out to be.
n0ice.
Maybe we might see something about Ford as well?
Maybe KOTM should have ignored the nuclear theme and focused on just the climate change theme. That would’ve been better than pretending to have a anti-nuclear pretense while the writers have a more pro-nuclear stance in real life. I think it’s stupid to go against your principles just to appease other people. Now I personally don’t think Godzilla movies should show nuclear proliferation in a positive light in respect of the original. Maybe Godzilla films can do what the Lorax did and show both perspectives. They could take an anti-nuclear stance but they could have 3 dimensional, likable characters who take a pro-nuclear stance who make good points. That way they could stay true to the Original Godzilla but still have opportunity to explore a different perspective.
I agree that I'd PREFER it, but I don't think it should be the defining thing of a Godzilla series. Fair points, though. Let's just agree to disagree
I don't agree at all. I think it's fine to use Godzilla for other themes and ideas relevant to its country of origin and it has: It's warned about unchecked capitalism, it's warned about nationalism, it's tackled pollution, it's spoken about socio-economic decline and the death of nuclear families--But in many of those instances is still an anti-nuclear stance.
In Monster Zero Godzilla is found by a Geiger counter, the only reference to radioactivity in the movie, but a subtle reminder of what spawned him. In Godzilla vs. Megalon, even as Godzilla's a superhero, warnings against nuclear proliferation are tackled at the beginning of the film when Monster Island's inhabitants are fleeing the radioactive fallout and negative effects from nearby testing. (Less we forget, Godzilla has always been a victim of the bomb and Megalon, surprisingly, was one of the few to remind us.)
Unchecked nuclear policies are explored in The Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah. Radiation is even the reason he died in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, since the ignited uranium deposits turned him in to Burning Godzilla--Which is more akin to a terminal illness than a power-up.
The point is, even though Godzilla's messages and themes have evolved with the times, the franchise has never left behind the basic core of its genesis: The dangers of wide-spread nuclear proliferation. That is the heart, soul and guts of Godzilla at ground zero and to go the other direction is a slap in face. It's like a Star Trek movie/series that advocates xenophobia instead of embracing other cultures--That's not what Star Trek's core is about.
I'm all for different messages and themes in the Godzilla series, but ones that contradict the core tenants of the franchise miss the point altogether. Even GINO did better with that theme--Which is the one time you'll ever hear me say something remotely positive about that cesspool of a movie.
I certainly hope Godzilla vs. Kong tackles some different topics, if any at all, in the next movie. (It might be better of just being mindless.) The muddled stance the Monsterverse movies are taking with nuclear power/radiation is one of the chief reasons I'm fine with it ending after the next movie.
1954 Serizawa is 2014 Serizawa's father who died during Hiroshima. Did a topic on it if anyone wants to know more about this.
Joe Brody is alive, and working for monarch
Zilla's species is the ancestral species of Godzilla's, or another branch of the evolutionary tree that evolved to be lighter and faster. Would be SUPER interesting, especially since that means Zilla might come into the Monsterverse.
Jet Jaguar a conceptual prototype of Mechagodzilla.
Scylla is the reason Ghidorah was frozen.
