New Replies (Page 364)
G.H. (Gman)
Ah, still haven't seen those two I'm afraid. Well, I watched Godzilla V.S. Megaguirus when I was a kid, but it's been so long that I forgot almost everything except my mother made a joke how I'd never do for her what the Meganula did for Megaguirus and that Godzilla survived two black holes lol.
TheLazyFish,
There are exceptions, however. In Godzilla x Megaguirus it's clearly stated that Godzilla attacked in 1954, but was not killed. The events in that continuity do not follow the same events from 1954 that we're used to. That Godzilla appeared in 1954 and returned in 1966 & 1996 before the events of the film in 2001.
The Final Wars Godzilla is the same way. He appeared in 1954, but was not killed. Just sealed away for many years before the X invasion in "20XX".
G. H. (Gman) Thanks for the confirmation.
JurassicKaiju14,
Yes. Before godzilla.jp was turned into the Godzilla Store's official website, it was Toho's official Godzilla website.
The godzilla.jp confirmed the Godzilla in Godzilla 2000 was the second after 1954 in the circled paragraph of this screenshot:
Translated to English:
"The huge monster that suddenly appeared at Cape Nofuku in Hokkaido was the second Godzilla after the one that had landed in Tokyo in 1954. This Godzilla appeared in Ibaraki Prefecture and a battle between Godzilla and a huge UFO broke out. Finally, the UFO revealed it was the monster Orga from space that evolved by taking the cells of Godzilla's body!"
Though this isn't mentioned in either the Japanese or American versions, I highly recommend watching the Japanese version for a different tonal take on the film. Not to mention the fact some creepy moments were cut from the American version.
JurassicKaiju14
It's not directly stated if I remember right, but there's two because it's like Godzilla Returns in 1984. It resets the timeline to take place after the first movie, which means that Godzilla 1954 took place. Since the Godzilla in that movie died, that has to mean the one in Godzilla 2000 is a separate individual, especially when considering the very different design and somewhat different powers as well.
G. H. (Gman) "There are two Godzillas in the Godzilla 2000 continuity."
Is there an official source for that? I don't recall that being mentioned in the film. Then again, I've only seen the American version, so it's likely not the most accurate source.
The Millennium and Reiwa monikers are not continuities but eras.
The Millennium era has 5 continuities. Reiwa has 2.
There are two Godzillas in the Godzilla 2000 continuity.
There's only one Godzilla in the Godzilla x Megaguirus continuity.
Two in the GMK continuity.
Two in the Kiryu Saga continuity.
Two in the Final Wars continuity. (Minilla is the second.)
One in the Shin continuity.
And finally two in the Anime continuity.
Well, Dagon never got a pronoun besides "it."
"Is... is it him?"
"No... this is much older."
And then Dagon's never referred to again. Dagon was intentionally left ambiguous, so we can wonder what kind of relation Dagon had with Godzilla, if any.
Hmmm I think I might be using the wrong word but I wasn't calling any scientist sexist. But yeah there were several concepts cancelled films of introducing a female godzilla.
Also Godzilla himself has been in several continuities all of them male or given male pronouns.
Showa has three Godzillas: Original, Second Godzilla, and Minilla
Heisei has three godzillas: Original, Second Godzilla, and Godzilla Jr.
Tri-star has the most Godzillas: Mama "Daddy" Zilla, Zilla Jr, and legions of Baby Godzillas
Millienium has seven godzillas?: Original, Second Godzilla (G2k), Second Godzilla (GvMG), GMK Godzilla, Kiryu Saga Godzilla, Final Wars Zilla, Final Wars Godzilla and Final Wars Minilla (Yes Included Zilla as a type of Godzilla)
Monsterverse has two Godzilla: Dagon/Adam and Godzilla
Reiwa has three Godzillas: Shin Godzilla (not counting his multiform 5th form), Godzilla filius, and Godzilla Earth
Considering there's 12 different canon continuities in the Godzilla franchise...
Oh yeah, I heard about that last one. Made it to a magazine too, though I feel that kinda puts it in the same position as the Marvel or DC alternate earths, canon but not the "real/prime thing," Whatever constitutes that for Godzilla. :P
Although Toho's official position is Godzilla is always male, Ken Satsuma who played the Heisei Godzilla from 1984-1995 felt a need to play Godzilla's gender ambiguous depending on the movie or scene. He cryptically said:
"When Godzilla shows up, sometimes it’s a male, sometimes a female. If you want to know about the family tree, I can’t tell you. It’s very complicated."
Also when Yoshimitsu Banno tried to fund his own movie, Godzilla: 3D to the Max (which eventually morphed into the 2014 movie), his story treatment claimed Godzilla was female, calling her, "Godzilla: Queen of the Jungle".
The unmade A Space Godzilla would have retconned Godzilla to be a female alien from Godzilla Planet. This is before her pregnant body is turned into a rocket ship by humankind and jettisoned into outer space. So there's that...
What Lazy said, my point is that Godzilla is a character, (originally)a reawakened irradiated male dinosaur. To use G VS KG as an example: Godzillasaurus is a species of theropod dinosaur, Godzilla is a specific male member of this taxon who has been mutated into a larger creature with the ability to emit an atomic beam from his mouth. So while there could definitely be an onscreen female of Godzilla's species somewhere down the line in a future movie, GODZILLA himself will always be male.
Funny you should mention that, as science has occasionally made mistakes like that, not necessarily by gender bias, but more through a lack of information. Hyenas are an excellent example. Female hyenas are larger than males, and their genitals are actually incredibly similar to the males'. Scientists observing them originally saw the bigger animals bossing the smaller ones around, saw "under the skirt," and based on other carnivore social structures like lions, assumed the big ones in charge were males. That turned out to be dead wrong, but it took more observation and studying of the animal's anatomy before that came to light. These scientists weren't being sexist, they were simply drawing the logical conclusion based on the limited information they had available to them.
I mean, MOST of it isn't likely, even Serious Sam, so...
Xenotaris
No, that's not the same thing. Those are different characters, respectively, each with their own personality, backstory, motives, etc, even if they are similar. Making a female Godzilla would be the same character. Again, not against it, BUT that's why you CAN compare it to a human character, because we always focus on an individual Godzilla. It's like if you said making Mikey from Monsters Inc into a female wouldn't change anything because he's not human.
Well, by THAT logic, assuming any creature is he or she before, as Ian Malcolm puts it, "lifting up their skirts" is inherently sexist. The only difference between that assumption you make and what Muldoon said is that Muldoon said and acknowledges it. He's not saying it's "better" to call Roberta he, he's saying why they accidentally call Roberta a he instead of she or why they just do that.
Jeez i don't think saitama could count as a normal human being, i mean i think is pretty implausible to become an unbeatable superhero after 3 year daily crossfit training. I would say it's cartoon logic.
Let's be clear, i still think Serious Sam could be the only human to withstand a fight with godzilla, for the reasons i wrote above, simply that he couldn't kill him.
Also about what Serizawa are we talking about? The Honda one or the MV one? Excluding the Oxygen Destroyer i believe there are other human made weapons able to hurt Godzilla, or any other Titan/Kaiju. Railguns, Kinetic Bombardments or orbital strikes or something like this.
I have yet to watch this one
You can't really use Ellen Ripley, Batman, or James bond because we know what male and female humans look like but for a creature like godzilla we never get to see any gender variation of his species.
Also we have a female batman, she is called Batwoman or Bat Girl.
We have a female James Bond, generic cat suit spy chick.
We have a male Ellen Ripley, generic space-opera hero dude.
I mean no disrespect to these characters but you can't compare godzilla to human characters for one thing humans get a lot more screen time and have diverse roles.
We do get a male Mothra, his name is Mothra Leo or Rainbow Mothra
Saying that a female tyrannosaurus feels better to call it a he is sexist, that would be like me saying it feels better to call dogs he despite that said he is giving birth or saying all cats are shes when you can clearly see that one of them "girls" has a nut sack!
Xenotaris
Yeah, yeah, of course it's at least somewhat sexist and inaccurate, BUT as I don't think that's what Muldoon was implying. I think what he was ACTUALLY trying to say was that it just FEELS more right to say he, not exactly saying that only males can bring that sense of power. That's why we usually have male Rodans or Godzillas, it just seems to "feel" more right. Same with Mothra. Not exactly that it IS right, it just seems to fit. Again, it is mostly subject to opinion, and it doesn't necessarily fit for everything and the only real reason it seems to fit is because we grew up knowing Godzilla as a "he". Muldoon wasn't saying that only a male, "could invoke being a being of power and death," he was just offering why they kept accidentally calling Roberta "he", because of how they grew up, it just seemed to fit. It was an explanation of how it just seemed to "fit" more, nothing more.
Yes, finally. This movie, along with Godzilla: Final Wars and Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla, is probably one of the Millennium Era Godzilla films.
Happy 18th Anniversary, GMK. :)
Well not just humans, but yes, in general the animal kingdom is pretty evenly split when it comes to which sex is the bigger or more aggressive. Should also be pointed out that in every case of sexual dimorphism it's not quite a matter of weak/strong, more each sex is suited for different jobs, and combat/hunting isn't always one of those.
As for why there has never been a female Godzilla though, I'd argue that has more to do with him being a character first and a species second, if ever depending on the media. It's the reason there isn't a female Batman or James Bond, or a male Ellen Ripley, because that's how the characters were invented. There are genderswapped or alternate versions sure, but they are exactly that, altered versions of the original concept.
I get what Muldoon was saying but its rather sexist say that only males could invoke being a being of power and death.
There are plenty of deadly females in the animal kingdom, its just we humans tend to have a gender bias.
Look at female spiders, they are bigger and far more dangerous than the males.
Female lions actually do all the hunting while male lions sit at home sleeping (unless other unrelated males are nearby).
Hyenas tend to be gender-blind in their social structure
Angler fish females are bigger and scarier than their male counterparts.
Female ants out number male ants 1000 to 1, among these ladies are the Queen, Soldiers, and workers while male ants are loners or sex slaves to the queen.
Similiar to the ants example, females bees too. Males live outside of the hive and are little more than prostitutes to the queens.
Elephants, only females are in charge of the herd while adult male elephants are kicked out of the herd and only return to have sex before leaving again. The male elephants fear the large and in charge matriarch
Female predator animals are by no definition weak and are just as strong as their male counterparts.
Its just in humans, females are weak.
Monster_Zero 2112
Yeah, it really doesn't make all that much difference to me. I mean, it's like with Rodan, you usually think Rodan as a he, but in the original Rodan movie, there was both a male and a female. So, either way, you could just say he or she concerning Rodan unless it's specified... or if they biologically HAVE to be female like with Zilla, even though they keep calling it "he". I guess this is also like what Muldoon said in the Jurassic Park novel, how Roberta (the T-rex) was female, but they keep calling her a he because it just seemed to fit better. Similar situation here, I guess.
Eh. I don't know. I always looked at Godzilla as a "he", and never a "she"
Why can't there be a female godzilla? Why must Godzilla always be male? This conundrum is probably the reason why they kept calling Zilla a "he" because no-one wants to make an official female member of godzilla's species
JurassicKaiju14, G. H. (Gman)
Hmm, I'll have to pay closer attention next time I watch it then.
Wow, that wasn't at all what I was thinking when I read "retract." I was thinking they sunk into his back, but that looks seriously awesome, I'd love to see them revisit the idea in a future film, maybe to make Godzilla more expressive or to pulse upwards while charging his Atomic ray. Thanks for the help!
Can't wait for chapter 5
Hmm...It might be part of the "Mechanized giant" idea that most people have.
Monster_Zero 2112
Technically they still kept calling Zilla "he", but due to the way biology works, Zilla has to be a female. Honestly, I couldn't care less so long as the movie was actually good, then this "that's not how biology works" stuff just be a nitpick. But the movie sucked, so... I get to nitpick a little lol.
Gomi: Ninja Monster,
JurassicKaiju14 is correct. The dorsal plates extend slightly as he powers up his atomic ray, though it doesn't show up very well on-screen.
You can see how the dorsal fin casts and mechanism worked as they're building the suit here.
I actually don't care about Mothra being able to reproduce asexually, but Zilla, now THAT'S a whole new thing. In 1998's Godzilla, they made him, into a her and then, a I don't know how many small Godzillas running around, cause that can't happen. Godzilla is KING of the monsters, not queen.
I really don't care. I love the art and I think this is really cool. Also, they're selling it at Target. https://www.target.com/p/godzilla-the-showa-era-blu-ray/-/A-77595569
I've always wanted to learn japanese.
I loved this movie! Happy Late-Birthday, GMK!
I don't even know what's happening here.
Gomi: Ninja Monster I've heard it said that you can kind of see the dorsal spines extend slightly when he charges up his atomic ray, but I haven't been able to catch that myself.
Like the majority of the fanbase I will forever be peeved that Anguirus and Varan were snubbed, but aside from that this movie is fantastic, easily some of the best suitmation the franchise has to offer. Reading the article, I'm curious why the dorsal plates on Godzilla were built to retract, it seems both odd and potentially cool. By any chance does anyone know if there is footage of that feature?
Not a movie I care for much but clearly a film held highly by the fanbase.
