Who Do You Think WON back in King Kong vs. Godzilla(1962)?

@Riggzamortis86,

"But the Godzilla in KKVG can't be the same from 54." Yes, it can. It didn't stop Toho in G2k and Megaguirus, along with final wars to say it is the same as the 54.

"Godzilla raids again- New Godzilla emerges along with anguirus. Godzilla gets trapped in ice." All correct, however, Godzilla is trapped in an icy mountain that is called Kamiko Island. It's an island located near Kurashima island heading towards North Korea in the Japan sea. The original Japanese version confirms this.

"King Kong vs Godzilla- Godzilla emerges from the icu tomb." also correct but, in the Japanese version Godzilla is located near the North in the Antarctic. Far away from where raids again ends. 

"Godzilla vs Mothra 1964 is the beginning of the trilogy that leads to monster zero. Godzilla is plunged into the sea." Some what correct. Godzilla is plunged into the sea near Iwa Island. He reappears in Ghidorah 64 in the Pacific ocean. However, monster zero did not acknowledge Mothra. "King Ghidorah was driven from earth, but only at the combined strength of Godzilla and Rodan." Funny it also took Mothra in the previous film but don't mention her.

"Invasion of Astro Monster 1965- Ghidorah once again is defeated retreating to outer space." Again, the ending is the same as Kong vs Godzilla. While we acknowledge Kong won, because he is last one seen on film, why can't the same be said for Ghidorah? 

"Destroy all monsters 1968." Takes place in 1999. Correct. However, it takes place after the events of Terror of mechagodzilla 1975 and the entire heisei series. The heisei series ends in 1996. 

I'm not saying these things to go against your theories, but the truth and facts were just spoken. You don't have to take my word for anything. You can watch these films and use Google as well. You'll get the same thing I just said though. 

Heavily agree with Godzilla: King of The Monsters

Hey I stand corrected. Still like to throw out theories out there. I don't agree about the time line for destroy all monsters. Yes it takes place in the year 1999 but it can't be in the same series time line with the Heisei series. But hey, we can all kind of interpret the series as we see it. 

On the topic of continuity, it is 100% confirmed that the Godzilla from Raids Again is the same individual from King Kong vs. Godzilla. This Godzilla is designated as the "Second Generation Godzilla," and according to Toho appeared in every film from Godzilla Raids Again through Terror of Mechagodzilla. The Showa continuity certainly isn't as strong or concrete as that of the Heisei series, but that wasn't really the priority. There's nothing in KKvG that "strongly implies" it isn't the same Godzilla. In fact, there's enough pieces there to match it up. Godzilla was frozen somewhere off the coast of Hokkaido in 1955, and in 1962 the first place he comes ashore after breaking out is Hokkaido. I'm not familiar with the exact location specifics, but for the film's purposes it's close enough. It's easy to assume that iceberg he emerges from broke off from the island in Raids Again and drifted for some distance. The characters also clearly know what Godzilla is and are noticeably panicked when he reappears. Akihiko Hirata's character even mentions how Godzilla thawing out was an inevitability, as they "couldn't expect him to stay frozen forever." It's not the most explicit continuity nod, but is at the very least lip service to Raids Again.

Flawless continuity isn't the priority of King Kong vs. Godzilla or the Showa series as a whole, but the changes to Godzilla's design or any other inconsistencies are simply the result of artistic liberties or oversight. Toho says that the 1955 and 1962 Godzillas are the same creature, and the pieces are there in both films to allow them to match up. I'm sure Godzilla's emergence from an iceberg in King Kong vs. Godzilla was due to the filmmakers' intention for it to be the same Godzilla.

I suppose I could also elaborate with some sources. Tomoyuki Tanaka's book (which most people here seem to accept as canon to some degree) says that Godzilla was frozen on Mikojima Island of the Kurile Islands, which are located north of Japan. The book also says that he was then carried to the North Pole, which I assume is roughly where he emerged in King Kong vs. Godzilla. Japanese Wikipedia's page on Godzilla also says "Although there are differences in appearance and contradictions on the story, the Godzilla that appeared from Godzilla Raids Again to Terror of Mechagodzilla is the same individual and is often called the second generation Godzilla" and cites no less than four different official informational books about the franchise.

I don't want to say much.  I have said enough. 

I wasn't right, nor was I really wrong. I had a feeling about 55 to 62 Godzilla. I would like to know more about 62 to 64. That's what started this whole conversation. 

But that's what started me to think that perhaps the way we see Godzilla begin and start each of the movies starts and ends has some contrast between movies in the Showa series. Thank you for confirming my suspicions about some of what I was saying. 

Kotm,

That is incorrect. I've pointed out already where raids again ends. It is nowhere near Hokkaido. It is near North Korea in the Japan sea. The original Japanese version of raids again shows that and they even say that's where he is. We can say that he broke off with an iceberg and drifted to the arctic, but clearly the arctic is on the other side of Japan in the North and off the coast of Hokkaido. The thing is, in Kong vs Godzilla, Godzilla attacks an arctic base and eventhen, it's not near Japan because they say he's heading home to Japan. "We knew the creature wouldn't last frozen forever, even if it took 200 years we knew he would return." We can take that as a follow up to raids again, but clearly Kong vs Godzilla does not acknowledge the events of raids again. The films themselves suggest this. 

And it should be noted that monsters have "revived" throughout the Showa era. Look at Ghidorah the three headed monster. Shinichi Sekizawa wrote the script and has the original Rodan from 56 come back. I thought this was common knowledge? 

But old articles say that this Godzilla from Raids Again is the same Godzilla throughout the rest of the series. Its the same character through every film just different designs and suits.

Plus King Kong vs Godzilla only suggest that for some odd reason Godzilla was frozen inside an iceberg. Everyone knew exactly who that monster was without a second glance. they knew Godzilla was frozen in an ice berg years ago as common knowledge. they had no other set up as to why he was frozen there.

If it were any other Godzilla, it would have shown up from the sea like the other two Godzilla's before it did. how else would you explain Godzilla showing up from an iceberg? why not show up from a volcano, an island or a a ship wreck? They chose the  iceberg. There is no other way around it. Its the same Godzilla.

^I'm taking a page out of your book here and even saying continuity wasn't exactly part of the Showa series agenda, it doesn't matter exactly where he was frozen, it just matters where he ended up later in the next film to help a contrast of familiar events to carry the story along.

I think you guys are misinterpreting what "generation" means. Second generation is from the 60's-70's. Third generation is from 84-95, fourth generation is from 99-04. Yet, we've all come to accept the 4th generation as individual films except the kiryu saga. I think generation just means the years that they were made in. 

Either way, they knew Godzilla because of 54. It's common sense here people. Just like final wars, where they say the 54 was still around and was that Godzilla in that same movie. It's not rocket science. If a monster like Rodan can revive from 56 in 64, why can't it be said that Toho ignored the 54 death and let him be in 62? 

Because 54 died, and because the 2nd Godzilla came from an iceberg where the last film left him trapped. And im only talking about the showa generation and series about my theory.

Your talking about the 4th generation millennium series, I understand what your trying to say there about 54 staying alive somehow in that movie. But that's a different point from where Im coming from here. Im talking about the chronological order of the Showa series films that would give my theory any ground.

we are however getting way off topic, and i fear others don't want to join in on this topic and question. I can see we just don't see eye to eye on what I was trying to say about the possibility of the movie having a draw and the reason why. I am however great full for your input and look forward to having more conversations with you.

I still would like to hear from other people on what they think of the outcome in the movie.

@Huge-Ben I'm not sure if you read or understood anything I said.

"Generation" in this context doesn't refer to what era it is. Only the 1954 Godzilla is "first generation," 1955-1972 is called "second generation," and 1984-1995 is called "third generation." Any Japanese book about the franchise will tell you this. This same logic is applied to all the other kaiju: 1955 Anguirus is called "first generation" and 1968-75 is called "second generation." Mothra 1961-64 is "first generation," her larvae are "second generation," and the Mothra from Destroy All Monsters is "third generation." It's a completely separate concept from the Showa, Heisei and Millennium eras. Multiple generations of kaiju can appear in the same era.

Also, I'm afraid you're incorrect about where Godzilla was frozen in 1955. I'll admit I wasn't sure exactly where he was frozen, but upon rewatching the film I noticed that Tsukioka is transferred to Hokkaido, and is scouting the waters in the area when he sees Godzilla. Godzilla is spotted and frozen in the Kuril Islands, an island chain located northeast of Hokkaido and south of Russia. According to Tanaka, after being frozen the water subsequently carried Godzilla towards the North Pole. King Kong vs. Godzilla does acknowledge the events of Godzilla Raids Again, because the characters know Godzilla was frozen, and lands in Hokkaido when he reaches Japan. It may not be completely explicit, but it's very much there. Why else would they go to the lengths of having Godzilla be an established character already and having him emerge from an icy prison north of Japan if they didn't intend to pick up from Godzilla Raids Again? There's absolutely nothing to suggest it's the same Godzilla from 1954, and sources from Toho explicitly say it isn't the same Godzilla.

The Rodan that appears in Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster isn't confirmed to be one of the 1956 Rodans. The two Rodans from 1956 are called "first generation Rodan" in official books, while the one from 1964 is called "second generation," though its identity is unclear. It's entirely possible one of the Rodans survived the climax of the original film, but equally possible this Rodan is one of their offspring. All we know is that the events of the original Rodan are held canon in Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster. The same holds true for the entirety of the Showa series. The continuity is generally loose and explicit references are few and far between, but Toho says all the Showa Godzilla films, along with at least Rodan and Mothra, are part of the same continuity. The Godzilla introduced in Godzilla Raids Again is the Second Generation Godzilla, and he reappeared in every subsequent film through Terror of Mechagodzilla.

To avoid going further off-topic, I think I'll start a separate blog post running down the continuity.

I know I'm not incorrect because I too, watched the original Japanese version of raids again last night from classic media. You simply can not rewrite your own input to make a back up claim. That's cherrypicking. It is Tsukioka and Kobayashi who confirm he's at the opposite side of the arctic. Why do you think Hideami says "You'll be entering the other country."? 

You're also incorrect about Rodan not resurrecting. It is the Princess that confirms that the volcano was reviving the original Rodan. Go back and watch the original Japanese version yourself. 

While the Princess is a prophetess, she gives very clear warning that the gases and such from the volcano are in fact resurrecting the original Rodan. It's there in the films, your sources are wrong. 

You are correct in the generation stuff. I was wrong, but, How did they know who Rodan was if he didn't exist or even Mothra before hand? They were not apart of the Godzilla series until they made them crossover. It's all there in the films. The films prove my point. 

All sources explicitly say Godzilla was trapped in the Kuril Islands in 1955. I don't remember any mention of Godzilla being near Korea in Godzilla Raids Again. Tsukioka and Kobayashi are working from Hokkaido, and logic would dictate they are scouting the waters near Hokkaido, which are cold and full of icy islands. By "other country" Hidemi likely means Russia. Unless I'm blatantly missing something, in which case it would be a retcon on Toho's part.

I know Selina Salno says Rodan was "resurrected." I even said that in my previous post. That's the strongest piece of evidence that it is meant to be a 1956 Rodan. However sources still call him "Second Generation," and there are official books that acknowledge the possibility it could be the First Generations' offspring.

Rodan and Mothra were not produced with the intention of being part of the Godzilla series, but when they crossed over all Toho had to do was add small nods to those films' events to weld the continuities together. In Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster, the characters know what Rodan is because it was written with the intention of Rodan having happened. In Mothra vs. Godzilla, the characters know what Mothra is for the same reason.

@King Of The Monsters, thank you for clearing that up.

I'm learning all kinds of lingo in these conversations.

So even though my theory now has some ground. Still a fan theory and has no real impact on the real context of the films.

I rewatched the scenes in question from Godzilla Raids Again more closely. Tsukioka says the island is Kamiko Island, but this island seems to be completely fictional, as I've received no results from searching its English or Japanese names. A few scenes later as the JSDF is planning its strike against Godzilla, you can see the character Tajima pointing to a map to show his men Godzilla's location. If you pause it at exactly 1:03:52 on the DVD, you can get a decent look at the map, and it appears to be a map of Hokkaido. Tajima was pointing directly north of Hokkaido on this map, which is the location of the Kuril Islands. That would definitely support the sources that say Godzilla was frozen in the Kuril Islands, and would make sense considering Tsukioka, Kobayashi and the JSDF are launching from Hokkaido. The JSDF even send ships to the island from Hokkaido, which would take a long time if they were sending them all the way to Korea instead of the Kuril Islands.

@Huge-Ben, I think I might actually know where this confusion is coming from. It seems you believe Kamiko Island is said to be near Kurashima Island, which is a real island located near North Korea as you've said. However, I don't think they say Kamiko Island is near Kurashima, they might say it's near Kurirushima, which is a Japanese name for the Kuril Islands that sounds similar to "Kurashima."

Since you can't find it on the map, I'll gladly help.

http://www.getamap.net/maps/japan/japan_(general)/_kamikoshima/

Also, Godzilla in Godzilla raids again attacked Osaka. That is a little further away from Hokkaido. Tsukioka and Kobayashi work in Hokkaido, that much is true, but even if Kamiko Island is fictional or not, the point is that is where Godzilla was last seen and heading towards. If Kamiko Island is the same island as Kamiko-Shima, like my Japanese co-workers are implying, then it seems to me that maybe, just maybe, that is where Godzilla raids again ends. 

The issue is I don't believe the Kamiko Island in the film is the same real-life Kamiko Island you are talking about. It may be a completely fictional island that happens to share its name with a real one located in a different location. Godzilla being in Osaka previously isn't an issue because Godzilla can swim over great distances, and there is quite a big time skip between when he defeats Anguirus and is next sighted. It's not that far-fetched for him to have swam all the way to the Hokkaido area in that time.

And the facts are that sources say Godzilla was frozen in the Kurile Islands, Tajima is pointing where the Kuril Islands are located on a map in the film, the characters that go after Godzilla in the climax all launch from Hokkaido, which is near the Kurile Islands, and the fictional Kamiko Island is cold and covered in ice, typical of many of the islands located in that area. Combine that with Toho saying the 1962 Godzilla is the same Godzilla from 1955, and to me it all points to the intention being that Godzilla was frozen north of Hokkaido. Hidemi's worry that Tsukioka will be "entering the other country" also makes sense, because the Kurile Islands are disputed territory between Japan and Russia.

Then that's your problem. Why even mention it in the film if it doesn't exist? Again, that is cherry picking. Godzilla is a cold blooded animal as Akira Ifukube described him. Why swim to the arctic when you're a cold blooded animal? 

For once, I have to follow up with the most up to date book from Toho. The all Kaiju encyclopedia. This book alone, along with a few other books I own go completely against your sources. If you having an issue that perhaps it's not the same island is going over, then again, my books back up what we're talking about. The fact is, the island is real whether you like it or not.