I am no Godzilla expert and knew going into KOTM that I would miss some references but I did get the Shobijin reference and I thought it was a bit strange. If anything it just made me feel good that I caught it.

A movie should cater to fans but also needs to not reinvent the wheel lest it stagnate. It also should take some chances to maybe pick up new fans. A franchise that has been around this long will never please everyone.

They should just be ignored. They seem to get some sort of superior feeling by judging fans with some kind of imagined fan scale. They are probably the ones at parties everyone avoids. 

G. H. (Gman) I think you hit the nail on the head here.

As a Godzilla fan, a part of me has always been intrigued by the behind-the-scenes construction of the sets and suits and such. I've always been fascinated by miniature models and props and such, and watching behind-the-scenes features on the movies is always a treat for me.

Likewise, I'm also a creature nut, so I'm really fascinated by these creatures and their biology, and the ideas of how they work. How does Godzilla generate his atomic heat ray? Is he a true dinosaur or some other type of archosaurian? Does Kumonga have spinnerets on both her head and abdomen or just the former? What type of creature was Gigan originally? Stuff like that I can't help but dive into.

And you know, I think that's one of the reasons why I want to become a writer. I've always wanted to be a filmmaker, but more and more do I realize that my favorite part is developing the stories themselves, and the worlds in which they take place. It's the lure of an alternate life that does it for me, and helping to create one to tell stories in. And maybe, just maybe, being able to take some lessons from those worlds and apply them to ourselves, and in doing so make a better reality.

"The only thing that gives me pause are people who claim they like these films, but then casually proclaim they're all terrible schlock. Again, I never use the "not a true fan" line, but I don't understand being a fan of anything you think is actual awful."

Yeah, that's always confused me to. I think what they mean to say is that they like to laugh at them. A sort of "so-bad-its-good" complex.

I think the "not a true fan" line is pretty presumptuous. People enjoy things for different reasons and as long as those reasons are reverent and passionate of the franchise they're true fans. For example, I enjoy the franchise these days for its filmmaking achievements, creativity and unique style. I've grown overwhelmingly bored of diving too far into monster biology/taxonomy and absolutely abhor fantasy monster match-ups and their mindnumbing discussions.

But, by that same token, many of those fans aren't as interested in the films' themes, actors, filmmaking techniques, etc. But they're no less passionate and loving of the franchise. Poe-tay-toe, Poe-taw-toe I suppose.

People who say those who don't like Shin Godzilla aren't "true fans" or those who don't like King of the Monsters aren't "true fans" are fans themselves--But their passion and excitement has sort of blinded them to think Godzilla can only be seen one way. I for one think Shin Godzilla is the only great thing to come out of the franchise since it returned in 2014 and that King of the Monsters is one of the worst in the series. But I'm not going to hold it against them if they like the latter over the former. (I just accept they have bad taste. ;) ) People look for different things in a franchise that spans 65 years--Some movies scratch that itch better than others.

The only thing that gives me pause are people who claim they like these films, but then casually proclaim they're all terrible schlock. Again, I never use the "not a true fan" line, but I don't understand being a fan of anything you think is actively awful.

That said... I used to see the, "not a true fan" tag way more in the late 1990s and early 2000s. But I also stay away from Youtube, so...

G. H. (Gman) Considering the uncertainty over whether Mothra triggered it herself as a second power-up or whether she did something to Godzilla to help him burn off all of that excess radiation (I subscribe to the latter theory), I see your point.

You know what I think happened? I think they wrote in the scene with the nuke recharge, but then somebody asked the same questions that were being asked on that nuclear narrative debate we had a while back, so they threw in the whole "buildup to explosion" factor as a way of saying "There, see? It's not a completely good thing, there are still consequences to nukes!", and then just threw in Burning Godzilla as the logical conclusion. Even when I was watching the movie, the whole time-to-detonation thing felt kind of tacked on and unnecessary. I actually flat out forgot it was a thing up until Stanton mentioned it again after Ghidorah's "UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAH!!!" moment.

On the flip-side, Godzilla frying Ghidorah to death could be seen as another bit of the MonsterVerse's tendency towards cryptozoology and ancient monster myths. If I recall correctly, the only way to stop the mythical hydra from regrowing it's heads was to cauterize it's wounds when they were cut off. And considering Ghidorah's regeneration abilities, it wouldn't surprise me if maybe they were trying to go for that too.

Hmm, I'd say some people initially join a fandom just to seem cool or relevant, like how being with the "popular kids" makes you more important somehow. I wouldn't list them as "true fans" at that point, however since what happens once they're in is completely up to them and I can't pretend to read people's minds, I try very hard to treat everyone with as much courtesy as possible. Bad communication seems to cause the majority of issues in fandoms, so anything I can do to reduce that feels like the right thing to do.

Do I think there is such a thing as "fake fans?" Yeah, but I sure as heck ain't gonna go around calling anyone that. It solves nothing and only exacerbates whatever issue is at hand. 

JurassicKaiju14,
"In Burning Godzilla's defense, I've seen a lot of pre-KOTM fan-battles that used Burning mode as a last resort finale, and Godzilla: Unleashed even had such a form for every playable monster in the game (they even call it "critical mass" in KOTM, like in the game). So I imagine the people in charge thought that was what people wanted."

But by that logic putting it in the movie because, "that was what people wanted," is more serviceable to the fans than it is the story. I don't think there was any need for it in the movie--In fact its inclusion raised a lot of questions about what Stanton was talking about when he said Godzilla was about to "explode."

Whereas the form in 1995 is the entire reason Godzilla vs. Destoroyah has a story to begin with. It just seemed like a cheap video game finishing move employed for the sake of fan service.

I fell into a bad crowd that had the true fan fake fan mentality. Glad I got out.

Every fan is a true fan.

I've actually been thinking about this topic a lot the past few days ever since I read an article on a quote from an interview with the director of The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson:

 “I think approaching any creative process with making fandoms happy would be a mistake... I want to be shocked, I want to be surprised, I want to be thrown off-guard, I want to have things recontextualized, I want to be challenged as a fan when I sit down in the theater.”

This is actually something that I (for the most part) agree with. I want to be surprised when I’m watching a movie. This is what Rian Johnson wanted to do to Star Wars fans; surprise them. However, as a result, he got much backlash from the fans for not giving them what they wanted: Spoiler Alert (although you’ve most likely seen the movie), Luke throws his lightsaber away, Rey is a nobody, Snoke is not the main villain (Kylo Ren is), etc... Although I (like most) am not happy with a completely different Luke than what we saw in the previous films, I’m fine with the unpredictability and risks that Johnson made, my main critique with the film being the unnecessary subplot with Rose and Finn.

As for Godzilla KotM, the film tries so hard to please fans that it completely forgets to add twists and turns to the story. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely enjoyed KotM, but when I left the theater after my first viewing, I couldn’t help but think “Everything I thought was going to happen happened.” Part of the blame does go to the marketing of the film, which was overwhelming in the amount of spoiler filled footage used. Of course I loved it when I caught an easter egg or nod to an old Toho film, but at the same time I think that nostalgia is a cheap way to get people to see and like your film.

A perfect example of this is Avengers: Endgame, which completely relies on reusing so much footage from previous MCU movies so that its viewers will go “Wow, I remember that!” It would be best if directors could find the perfect balance between fan service and unpredictability and I do think that directors shouldn’t be scared to take risks. 

Not a Star Trek fan, but for the most part I tend to agree with G. H. (Gman) here. I have little actual experience with the series(Beyond was my first movie and I liked it, heresy I know), but I did get to watch the original movie and TWOK recently. From an outsider's perspective, I have to say the very extended look at the Enterprise in the Motion Picture was definitely a bit too much for an uninitiated newcomer.

I'd argue that the Shobijin were a victim of story cuts, the story in the credits and that scrapped after-credits scene pretty strongly imply that the mystical and telepathic aspects were a lot more prominent at one point, but I'll cede that what could have been doesn't affect what is in this case. I also agree with JurassicKaiju14 on Burning Godzilla, much like Ghidorah and Destoroyah I think its importance is rather overinflated by the fandom, but I was rather fond of calling it Fire Godzilla.

G. H. (Gman) "But going out of the way to shoehorn a version of the Shobijin when the film clearly has no use for them is utterly pointless. Misusing important franchise staples, like Burning Godzilla or the Oxygen Destroyer, for a quick wrap and name drop (respectively) strikes me as a faux pas as well--Though I imagine the debate for/against those will rage on."

Totally agree with the Shobijin thing. I'm kinda so-so on the Oxygen Destroyer–I definitely think it could have been utilized a lot better, but I'm not too terribly broken up about it. In Burning Godzilla's defense, I've seen a lot of pre-KOTM fan-battles that used Burning mode as a last resort finale, and Godzilla: Unleashed even had such a form for every playable monster in the game (they even call it "critical mass" in KOTM, like in the game). So I imagine the people in charge thought that was what people wanted. I don't blame 'em, and I'm personally happy with it.

Also, Trek fan from the tender age of three, I liked your TWOK comparison. Good point. It took me years to get past the Ceti Eel scenes as a kid (they still freak me out), but once I did, I suddenly got why everyone says it's the best Trek film.

I think as long as the movie is excellent, it shouldn't matter. Of course you're never going to make the perfect movie that appeals to everyone, but I always go back to one of my favorite movies for emphasis: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

Wrath of Khan was directed by Nicholas Meyer--He was not a fan of Star Trek. He didn't hate it by any stretch, in fact he respected it so much he went back and watched the original series to find some inspiration.

He brought back an old villain from the television series and crafted a fresh, original story around him. It also put the characters in new situations while having the utmost reverence for the franchise.

There was no fan service, just the satisfaction of a great movie. And there lies the kicker: As long as we get great movies with our favorite characters, why do we need fan service and nostalgia?

Sure, I think having Ifukube's theme is fine--Much like the James Bond series continues to use Monty Norman's theme. And seeing old monsters return is fantastic as long as there's new, interesting stories and situations to craft around them.

But going out of the way to shoehorn a version of the Shobijin when the film clearly has no use for them is utterly pointless. Misusing important franchise staples, like Burning Godzilla or the Oxygen Destroyer, for a quick wrap and name drop (respectively) strikes me as a faux pas as well--Though I imagine the debate for/against those will rage on.

For the most part, I thought KOTM's fan service was fine. I thought it was done in a way that long-time fans would appreciate, but newcomers would look at it and say "oh that looks cool", and then look it up later and go "oh, so they were referencing an older movie? Cool!". And to me, it felt like most of it was just little details here and there, like the numerical designations of the Monarch outposts or the soundtrack or things like that.

The only bit of fanservice that I don't think was handled well was Chen and her sister being this universe's version of the Shobijin. For us longtimers, we'd know all about it, but for newcomers, it wouldn't make any sense. It doesn't even play an actual role in the story (something that even the Oxygen Destroyer does), and just felt kinda cheap to me.

I like all of 'em in one way or the other.

Well I think Mothra symbol was an emphasis of her being divine since at the climax of her original movie, the Mothra symbol shows up when the christian cross aligned with the sun. Not sure if that was in the original cut of Mothra or the dub...

G. H. (Gman) Ah, that's it. Swapped over to Chrome, and now it's working fine. Thanks.

*Ghidorah

And as always, it usually depends on which version we're talking about. For example, I usually love King Ghidorah, but I'm not a big fan of the Monsterverse or Heisei variations.

Works fine for me too. Seems to be a setting you may have accidentally hit with your browser. Try another browser and see if you have the same issue.

That's weird. Looks fine to me. Have to tried pulling the tab open for the comment box in the lower right hand corner? Is it this way for every web browser of yours?

yeah i like mothra, but godzilla is awesome, actually all of them are awesome lol. 

Mothra's my favorite Godzilla kaiju, sooooooo...

But I also like the Mutos.

Still gotta watch my KOTM disk. Good thing I actually do have a Blu-Ray player or I'd be in trouble.

kom was awesome... best kaiju movie

"let them fight"

Hm. That hasn't happened to me. Sometimes, though, when I press a topic it registers me as pressing the Godzilla Sweater thingy and it's a bit annoying.

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That's cool I did give my sister King of the Monsters, my best friend Tokyo SOS/Final Wars (he's a massive Kitamura fan) and another one of my best friends Ultraman Geed.

It's not what I received but what was given. I just gave my elderly dad Skull Island and KOTM (Rambo Last blood too) and he was pretty tickled. My niece whom I haven't seen in years was there and got wide eyed and excited that I was into the trilogy. She didn't know GvK was delayed. It was a moment of love and geekery and not really about loot. I was a little peeved no one got me a PS4 though ;)

JurassicKaiju14,
What do you mean?

Yes, I love the JPIII Raptor designs despite Jurassic Park III is my least favorite Jurassic Park movie

Really c00l! Didn't know you had Photoshop.

I was brought into Godzilla when I first saw the 1998 Godzilla movie (yes that one), I was around 5 yrs old and this was 14 yrs ago and I actually liked it...but I was only 5 and it wasn’t till later that i learned it was a insult to the Godzilla franchise. The first movie that got me into monsters and giant Kaiju was both the Original 1933 King Kong and the Peter Jackson King Kong remake, I fondly remember watching both films at home and at the cinema respectively. Watching a giant gorilla fight a trex, climb skyscrapers and have a fascination with a human has shaped me into the Kaiju fan I am now and has literally changed my life. Then the first True Godzilla movies I saw were Godzilla 2000, Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. And the Original 1954 Gojira, Then the Heisei and Showa films came later. The memories of watching those films still touch me to this day. I was watching not just a man in a suit, but a icon of japan who went from destroyer of worlds to protector of humanity, this has launched my love of special effects, Giant monsters battling each other and cinema altogether. Then my fandom of Godzilla died down for a 1 or 2, until I heard the announcement of a new big budget, American Adaptation of Godzilla was coming and I was excited, Finally! We’re getting a new Godzilla movie and one that promises to erase all memories of the 1998 Roland Emmerich Abomination. The hype was real, as here and there, there were leaked photos, behind the scenes, trailers and Images revealing what the film will be like. I was in 7th grade, the best yr for me in Middle school, and the film couldn’t have come out any better time as I was entering my teenage yrs, my fandom and love for Kaiju has expanded a lot and the film lived up to my expectations (eh sort of). I’m Glad of being a Godzilla/Kaiju fan since it has helped shap and change my life forever, Long Live the  king.

Xenotaris "Return to Jurassic Park DLC for Jurassic World Evolution"

SAME! I just finished the campaign for that yesterday. Those JP3 raptors are things of beauty, aren't they? :D

I just wanted to complete my Godzilla movie collection. As for other non-godzilla releated christmas stuff, I got a new dinosaur book, a pokemon game, Return to Jurassic Park DLC for Jurassic World Evolution, a pokemon 3-pack movie set, and some other stuff