Monsterverse: What should change/ could be better?

I don't think the creatures should be killed off. I see the franchise to be about balance and KOTM is the one who keeps it. Kong was OK but I just don't see him besting a creature with nuclear breath.

I found both movies lacking a bit with characters. Without good characters, no amount of action or effects can mask that short coming. Hopefully GvK is delayed to flesh out characters we can care about.

I do agree that Ghidorah showed up a bit sooner than I thought he would, but then again, I don't think Warner Bros. really planned for the MonsterVerse to go on for as long as us fans hope it will. The initial plan after 2014 only went as far as Kong: Skull Island, Godzilla: King of the Monsters, and Godzilla vs. Kong. I think the latter is meant to be the soft-ending point for the MonsterVerse; if it succeeds, then more installments may be in the future. If not, well, at least they got their original saga completed without it getting smacked down in it's birthing stages like Universal's monster universe.

I personally feel like Ghidorah was made menacing enough in KOTM, but I do agree that, as cool as they made Mothra, I would have liked to see them do a little bit more with her. Oh well. Maybe if GvK succeeds, she could wind up with a solo movie of her own. I like to think that she somehow rushed her metamorphosis in KOTM so she could aid Godzilla sooner, so it would be an interesting opportunity to show off what the Queen of the Monsters can really do.

I think I'd really like to see a movie where the focus is really on Godzilla himself. Both 2014 and KOTM have been about him fighting some bigger threat, but I'd like to see a movie where Godzilla is the center of the problem. I've seen a lot of people derogatorily describing the MonsterVerse Godzilla as a hero, which he's not–he's more of an anti-hero at best; he's fighting for his own agenda, and we're just ants to him. I think I'd like to see a movie that reminds us that, as much of a natural guardian as he is in the MonsterVerse, he could still potentially turn on us if we do something he doesn't like.

dk, I actually liked KOTM's characters better than 2014. Rewatching the latter, it felt more and more like these were just people that the camera happened to be following around. Ford's near-constant run-ins with the creatures kept happening to the point where it was actually kind of ridiculous.

By contrast, KOTM's characters felt to me like actual characters. They changed and grew over the course of the film based on their experiences, or the consequences of their actions. Mark Russell comes to understand that, even with all the death and destruction he may bring, Godzilla is not necessarily the enemy he thought he was. Emma Russell, meanwhile, realizes that her frantic scheme to "save the world" has only resulted in far more destruction than humanity could ever hope to achieve in almost the blink of an eye, and sets out to undo the damage she's caused in her misguided crusade. The dialogue is rather weak in spots, of course; I won't deny that I could have written the movie better (and I am, as a matter of fact), but I think the concepts and ideas are definitely there.

@JurassicKaiju14 The prequel film I stated above would completely be in Godzilla’s perspective. Its his story, through his eyes with the audience witnessing the journey to fight Ghidorah for the good of the planet. KotM’s characters lacked some depth. I personally believe Emma shouldn’t have had a redemption moment. She was solidified as a villain because of her belief and they attempted to redeem her later on by showing she changed because of Madison. If anything, she should’ve just stayed a villain who gets what she deserves in the end. That would’ve played out a lot better. Her dying still believing in her jaded cause. Ghidorah was definitely shown off too early. He IS the main threat and should be treated as such with a proper slow buildup to his grand finale. With the Monsterverse ending with a pure, god-like battle for the world with Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan against the biggest evil the world now faces: *King* Ghidorah.

 JurassicKaiju14 KOTM characters were good but didn't seem to really develop until about a third of the way in. After that, yes, they were very good.

he could still potentially turn on us if we do something he doesn't like

Agree. I would like to see this happen. This basic point was debated here: 

 https://www.scified.com/topic/49432

It would be the complete culmination. After that, to add insult to injury, the last scene of a movie would show the world carrying on without humanity.

dk At least they developed. The most development we got out of 2014 was Joe Brody changing from alive to dead.

ChrisRemix  Funny enough, in my rewrite, I actually planned on having Emma get shot through the head by Jonah after the ORCA proved to be no longer necessary when Ghidorah takes control. I've since decided against it, and I'm now switching over to simply fleshing out her arc and improving it's execution. I kind of view her as a representation of the folly of Man; she believes that she can bend the world to her will to solve a perceived problem, it blows up in her face and instead causes more chaos, and she then realizes that her actions aren't going to get her the balance that she wanted and will instead result in extinction, so she tries to fix it. And she can't even really do that. All she really does is distract Ghidorah long enough for Goji to get his third wind and fry him to death. But even then, the damage is still done.

As for Ghidorah, not to sound like a broken record, but I'm certain that the MonsterVerse, as it is now, is only meant to go up to Godzilla vs. Kong. I'm going into this movie just assuming that it's going to be the last one.

Whatever Ghidorah did in KOTM, it's going to have a lingering effect on the plot of GvK. The world of the MonsterVerse wouldn't be in the state it's in now if it weren't for him. He's literally changed everything. Ghidorah himself may be gone, but his impact is still going to be felt in the events of this movie. And that's not even considering that somebody might buy off Kevin from Alan Jonah and use it to create something worse.

Let me give you a non-Godzilla example; the Green Goblin from 2002's Spider-Man. Goblin is one of Spider-Man's arch-enemies–probably the worst–and they used him in the first movie. Some would argue that was a waste, having him so soon. But then in Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 3, the Goblin's actions end up having a profound effect on Peter Parker's life, especially in regards to his friendship with Harry Osborn. Goblin may have showed up comparatively early, but he left a lasting impact on the series.

The Monsterverse are very safe, producer driven movies--Especially post-2014. They don't really introduce anything we haven't already seen in the franchise and sort of come off as passable movies at best.

The characters are the main issue. Kong: Skull Island has had the best cast so far. They're not particularly well written, but they all do largely different things, or at least have different goals, and are engaging.

The problem with Godzilla 2014 is lack of engagement. The main character had no other supporting characters to bounce off of for two-thirds of the movie, making him rather boring to watch. It was a curious decision to separate him from the rest of the cast.

While the characters were more engaging in King of the Monsters, they were absolutely grating to sit through--Most of them didn't even have arcs, they just just sit around "tracking" and gawking at monsters. It wasn't until Madison got fed up with the situation that someone decided to actually do something. Her stopping the worldwide attacks and luring Godzilla and King Ghidorah into battle probably makes her the film's biggest hero. Also poor Charles Dance was completely, utterly wasted.

King Ghidorah was more intimidating when characters talked about him than when he was actually on-screen. We constantly have it rammed down our throats how Godzilla's rivalry with King Ghidorah is legendary, but we don't see King Ghidorah do a lot himself. We never actually see him destroy a city, ala prior movies. He retreats during the first battle after Monarch arrives (of all things), it was confirmed by Dougherty he would've lost against Godzilla in the second battle had the Oxygen Destroyer not intervened and he needed Rodan's assistance after Mothra arrived to help Godzilla in Boston. So much for visual storytelling establishing their rivalry. Not my favorite incarnation of the character by a long shot.

It really highlights just how well his introduction was handled in the original, 1964 debut--He was the last monster to show up in the movie, because the film built up to his big reveal, saving him for the final act - We were shown he's an alien, not told, because he landed in a meteor (*gasp* visual storytelling!) - We're highlighted how powerful Godzilla and Rodan are by seeing them pound each other for half of the movie, giving audiences an idea how strong King Ghidorah is if they have to team up with Mothra - We watch how quickly he can exterminate a single city, especially compared to Godzilla & Rodan - The military don't even bother mounting an attack on him. This is not about comparing which incarnation is stronger. This is about which was established better as a threat in terms of cinematic storytelling and build-up. Honda, Sekizawa and Tsuburaya nailed it. Dougherty and Shields decided to write the least effective route for a villainous nemesis possible.

I also dislike a lot of the weird, messy and confused thematic elements in these two Godzilla movies. But that opens up a can of worms few people here seem to agree with. Whatever the case, it's there and it's dumb.

I think the best way to critique the Monsterverse is to ask yourself: If these movies were remade shot-for-shot, with the exact same script, the exact same characters, the exact same actors and the exact same settings/locations, but with tokusatsu visuals instead of Hollywood's, would they still be the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices?

G. H. (Gman) "If these movies were remade shot-for-shot, with the exact same script, the exact same characters, the exact same actors and the exact same settings/locations, but with tokusatsu visuals instead of Hollywood's, would they still be the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices?"

As one of those people who really, really likes the MonsterVerse...probably not. Furthermore, I will admit that as much as I love KOTM, I probably could have written the movie a whole lot better (I'm trying to, actually). Of course there will be a movie that comes along that will inevitably be better. But that day hasn't come yet for me.

The real joy of the MonsterVerse is getting to see all these characters brought to life with all the CGI-effects that Hollywood can buy. Watching 2014, it felt like I was actually seeing Godzilla for real; like he'd leapt out of the movies and was now a living, breathing creature right before my eyes. A legend come to life. I generally prefer KOTM overall, but I'll never forget that feeling that I had watching 2014. It's also important to keep in mind that when 2014 came out, it had been 10 years since the last Godzilla movie, and 16 since the last American attempt – and lo and behold, it was better than 1998. Granted, that's not a high bar to clear, but even so, it was a tremendous relief.

Please don't think that I am ignorant of the MonsterVerse's flaws. That banner quote down below isn't just there to sound deep: "A true fan can acknowledge the bad while still appreciating and cherishing the good." But for all the problems that the MonsterVerse has, I still enjoy it all the same. This is the Godzilla that I've been growing up with. I became a fan around 2012 or so. Up until 2014 came out, all I had were images of the movie posters and Wikipedia plot summaries and trailers for the old movies on YouTube and all the other things passed around by fans. I was riding on the coattails of what had come before I started caring. But now I'm actually living in a new era of Godzilla, and I'm so happy to finally really be a part of it all.

The visuals Hollywood can achieve have been great so far. The problem with Hollywood making movies like these is bad writing and dialogue that just sounds downright sappy and cliche enough to notice. 

TBH, as great as 2014 looked, I was bored to tears, shut it off about 2/3 the way through and never felt compelled to re visit.

 JurassicKaiju14,
Creating new fans is certainly not something I can fault the Monsterverse for. I'm glad it's introducing a whole new generation of fans to Godzilla that are excited by the creatures and themes. And hope said fans go back and see some of the much better films in the series. It's a big deal.

But CG effects is not why I personally got into the franchise to begin with--In fact it was an entirely different style and look of special effects that kept me so endeared to it. So seeing the same, boring Hollywood techniques that are used in literally every movie released in theaters every weekend of the year does nothing for me.

In Japan Godzilla was king of his own special effects style and visuals that launched an entire sub-genre. In America he's a pauper of what Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park pioneered. I hope to see more of the former in the future.

And if not? Well, at least I've got Ultraman.

G. H. (Gman) "But CG effects is not why I personally got into the franchise to begin with--In fact it was an entirely different style and look of special effects that kept me so endeared to it"

Oh I'm not knocking on the old-style suitmation style. The amount of effort they put into sculpting the suits and building the miniatures is simply breathtaking, and I'm always down for physical props whenever possible. I just recently got Tokyo SOS on DVD, and I was really amazed by how much the style had been perfected by then (the movie itself was kind of meh for me though). I usually wind up going to great lengths to defend the style when talking with non-Godzilla fans, and I gained a lot more respect and admiration for the the stunt actors after reading about all the behind-the-scenes near-disasters the franchise's production has been through. Seriously, I hope the people who get into those things are paid well for their efforts.

Again, my appreciation for the MonsterVerse designs comes in how much they make me feel like I'm seeing the actual creatures that the designs are based off of.

But whatever. As long as we can agree to disagree on the MonsterVerse in an amicable fashion, I'm happy.

JurassicKaiju14,
To be clear, I don't hate the Monsterverse. I suppose the way I can tell I'm a giant monster fanboy is because I can find something worthwhile in any these films, despite whatever flaws they may have.

Although I consider King of the Monsters one of the worst movies in the franchise, it still has likable qualities I truly do appreciate. And hey, at least it's not Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla.

But the fact I'm tired of it after only three movies is telling--And I'm ready to move on to the next thing for the franchise.

G. H. (Gman) After the Monsterverse, would you be opposed to a different visual direction that was far away from an Americanized take? Sort of the style and look of Gantz O?

Opposed to it? No. As long as it uses the style to its advantage and does something different.

I'd personally prefer tokusatsu to go new places--even if it's in the Shin Godzilla form of mixing CG with miniature work.

G. H. (Gman) If it ends with GvK, I personally won't be too bothered. I mean, I'd be happy if it did continue, but as long as it isn't left with any lingering threads or cliff-hangars or anything like that, I'll be happy.

And I am curious to see how Toho's World of Godzilla will play out. I think it's rather ironic that they're comparing it to the MCU when Godzilla had a shared movie universe long before Marvel ever got the idea...

JurassicKaiju14,
Well... we'll see if it happens. The "World of Godzilla" was more of an idea than an official announcement. It wouldn't shock me if Toho didn't actually follow up with it.

@Gman Personally, as a fellow giant monster fanboy, I feel like the Monsterverse is too restrained. Like nobody whos behind it is willing to show give the monsters the chance to truly shine. For example, i love giant monster fights. It has a sandbox feeling when watching them, like they can use the cities, that us humans took years to build, as a battleground that demolishes it in mere minutes. The monsterverse movies have been super restrained when the fights came along. They know how to hype up to it, but not how to deliver the battle. When I get the chance, I will use it to recreate the battle from KotM and give it the best final showdown it should’ve had. To show that just because the monsters arent human, doesnt make them less of a thrill to watch. They dont need to be human for us to relate to them.

ChrisRemix  I'm doing the same thing in a way. Part of my KOTM rewrite is going to have segments told from the each of the four main monsters point of view; and that includes the fights. So when they start going at it, it's not from the humans' POV; it's from the monsters'.

It'll also give me a chance to really flesh out their backstories, especially in regards to Ghidorah's origins and Godzilla and Mothra's relationship.

The way I see it, the characters are characters, but the monsters are the main event. These movies have cut away from the creatures to the characters and back for 65 years. That didn't really bother me. The fact it was cutting back to some of the most annoying characters in the series is what bugged me.