Ready Player One Kaiju Spoilers

Yes they're not Japanese, but as not every Japanese monster is a kaiju, not every non-Japanese monster can't be a kaiju, surely.

Heck, the term "kaiju" never even had a proper meaning until Godzilla came along in 1954 and modernly defined it; centuries before then, it was used as to describe anything strange looking; literally "strange beast". A man could walk outside, see a platypus or even a beetle he'd never seen before, and go "Ah! Kaiju!" and it would still be an accurate statement.

And on the MUTOs overall design, their silhouette still stands out from all the other monsters mentioned here. Heck, the Stranger Things monster from season 2 literally only looks like that because of the angle; seen from different angles, and it's more of this big tentacle-spider thing. Meanwhile, the MUTOs retain a more Gorilla-like posture with the front arms being larger than the back legs; not to mention Hokmuto again retaining the look of a stealth bomber.

The MUTOs are pretty unique. The multiple leg thing is the only thing they share with a lot of modern Hollywood monsters, and the gorilla-posture is something they only share with Clover and Kong 2005, but that's about where the similarities end.

Ah the timeless argument on whether the MUTOs sucked or not. I think it should be broken down into three criteria:

1. How they were in the context of the film. Mediocre. Sure they have the EMP blast that goes into the whole "nature is punishing man" thing, but it really had no other use than that. Sure the EMP was meant to affect Godzilla's atomic breath, but that was cut out of the film so it doesn't count. As monsters, they were just there for Godzilla to kill.

2. In context as Godzilla monsters. Unique. Sure they wont ever compare to any of the Toho kaiju, but they are unique among the creatures Godzilla has faced. It can be said they aren't a rip-off of anything Toho has made for Godzilla as far as I'm aware of and that says something at least. 

3. In context as American made monsters. This is where Gman has the point through and through. When you look at other monsters made here in America, you could swap the MUTO out for the Arachnid or Clover or whoever and you'd end up with generally the same thing. It's entirely bland and a show of lacking creativity for American studios.  

"but as not every Japanese monster is a kaiju,"

Examples?

"not every non-Japanese monster can't be a kaiju, surely."

Why? They're not Japanese. Why are we using a Japanese word used to describe specific Japanese characters in a specific Japanese sub-genre for non-Japanese characters? It loses meaning.

"Heck, the term "kaiju" never even had a proper meaning until Godzilla came along in 1954 and modernly defined it; centuries before then, it was used as to describe anything strange looking; literally "strange beast"."

Exactly--"Godzilla came along in 1954 and modernly defined it," is dead on. As I explained above, there's a difference between kaiju the translation/transliteration and kaiju the Japanese word--Especially when tossed around in other languages. If kaiju only means "strange beast" and we need to use that for anything that fits the description, then why not just say "strange beasts"? Answer: Just because the word translates to "monster", and its transliteration is "strange beast" or "strange creature", doesn't mean everything that fits that bill (like a platypus, I suppose) qualifies as a kaiju within the context of the film genre. So unless we're going to dumb down "kaiju" to its literal meaning and make it completely useless in an English sentence: Gigan is a kaiju. Clover is not. Gamera is kaiju. MUTO are not. It's pretty cut and dry.

"And on the MUTOs overall design, their silhouette still stands out from all the other monsters mentioned here."

I think you're reaching, in all honesty. It just looks like a slightly more archnid-like Clover with a different head to me. If that's unique, then okie-dokie.

The Legend of Brian ,
Well I don't think that's really the debate right now--But no, I'm no fan of the MUTO. I find them entirely forgettable.

"But no, I'm no fan of the MUTO. I find them entirely forgettable."

I think that was quite clear already XD Nothing wrong with that, of course.


Anyways, there's plenty of modern Japanese monsters that aren't kaiju. First off you got anything from the Pokemon, Digimon, Yokai-Watch, etc. None of those are kaiju, and no one refers to them as such even in Japanese culture. In terms of live action, you got Snake-women in a number of live action horror films and a number of humanoid creatures that appear in Latitude Zero that aren't kaiju. Then you got a huge amount of examples in anime; Totoro, the Titans from Attack on Titan, the Parasite from Parasyte, Guana from Knights of Sidonia, etc. etc. etc.

All of which are indeed Japanese monsters, but none of which are kaiju; or at the very least, referred to as such in culture.

There are other words for "monster" or "beast" in Japanese. This is why the specific word "kaiju" wasn't used much until Godzilla came along, and that's only because it was the shorter form of the more accurate "daikaiju." The base word was simply too generic. People are much more likely to say "bakemono" or "obake" or "yokai" or "oni" when talking about a monstrous creature even today, as those words are more specific.

When Godzilla came along, that's when "kaiju" finally started to have a little bit more clear meaning; being larger strange monsters with personalities and character other than "GRAR! *STOMP*"

And if you're concerned about how something like MUTO or Clover wasn't made in Japan, then think of it this way: the majority of Sushi Rolls are American. Japanese makizushi (a form of sushi) are what they are based on: rice and fish rolled up with seaweed. However, what America has done with it is A) put the rice and fish on the outside in many cases and B) added a ton of other ingredients as to where the original concept is supposed to be more simple and plain. And yet, we still call it Sushi.


The same can be said for pizza. Original Italian pizza is about as thin as paper and literally lacks any toppings outside of tomato sauce and cheese, but America still calls all our different versions pizza; all-meat, thick crust, deep dish and all.

Even automobiles/cars were made invented outside of America. And yet, America comes along, makes their own version, and still calls them automobiles or cars.

Why are Kaiju suddenly different? Why is calling the MUTOs or Clover American-made kaiju suddenly make the word lose its meaning? Or even calling Gorgo a british-made kaiju or Reptilicus a Danish-American kaiju?

It just seems silly to me that being Japanese in origin is the sole requirement that can't be overlooked whatsoever even though the creature may fit the bill in every other way.

OK, I need to weigh in here. We're splitting hairs. Although Kaiju originated as a purely Japanese creation, it honestly has grown beyond that. I'm with others in that I personally feel you can call whatever the hell giant creature you want a kaiju. I'm one of the biggest Godzilla 2014 detractors, and although I didn't love the Mutos and certainly didn't find them overly original, I did like the fact that the filmmakers tried to come up with a different antagonist, and for me, yes, they are still kaiju. As for originality, in Japanese cinema, we have Mothra (a giant moth), Kamakiras (Deadly Mantis anyone?), Kumonga/Speiga (Tarantula), Rodan (pteranodon), and Gorosaurus, which is what, a larger generic looking dinosaur. Honestly, if they all qualify as "kaiju", then again, feel free to quantify several non-Japanese giants as kaiju as well. There will be the so-called "purists" who disagree, but so be it.

"Anyways, there's plenty of modern Japanese monsters that aren't kaiju. First off you got anything from the Pokemon, Digimon, Yokai-Watch, etc. None of those are kaiju, and no one refers to them as such even in Japanese culture."

Yes, but a lot of these are anime and have assimilated their own look and tone for creatures in that particular style and its sub-genres. Again, this is about genre and using the word where it fits correctly. No Pokemon aren't kaiju, I'll grant you that. They're their own nomenclature but, by the same token, if they aren't kaiju why are MUTO? It makes no sense.

"In terms of live action, you got Snake-women in a number of live action horror films and a number of humanoid creatures that appear in Latitude Zero that aren't kaiju."

Yes, they're known as kaijin instead--An offshoot of kaiju. I'm not suggesting the H-Man is a kaiju, but both that word and kaijin were popularized around the same time for their respective genres. We wouldn't call Dracula a kaijin, would we?

"...think of it this way: the majority of Sushi Rolls are American. Japanese makizushi (a form of sushi) are what they are based on: rice and fish rolled up with seaweed. However, what America has done with it is A) put the rice and fish on the outside in many cases and B) added a ton of other ingredients as to where the original concept is supposed to be more simple and plain. And yet, we still call it Sushi."

As compelling of an argument as this is, it's also the same case that we're seeing now with kaiju. California rolls are what popularized sushi in America and that offshoot eventually, and incorrectly, adopted the name sushi. It's a case of just because it happened doesn't mean it's right or accurate.

Automobiles is a less convincing comparison since many different inventors from various countries were all making their variations around similar frames of time. (The argument continues for who made the first one, though Germany seems to be the most agreed upon.)

The thing that makes the word kaiju different is that it's not a word used as widely as "sushi" or universally as "automobile". It's in a niche--A Japanese niche. And it's a word that continues to lose meaning every year with fans that misuse or try to expand the definition with head-canon definitions. Clover and MUTO make excellent giant monsters with personalities, but the criteria stands. They're not Japanese monsters from a Japanese sub-genre of film. They're certainly inspired by those creatures and films, I'll give them that--But they're not kaiju.

My question in all this is, where do the MUTO's stand as monsters that appeared in a Godzilla film? Would they be considered in the larger pantheon of kaiju that have appeared in the franchise, or is it a sort of sub-category? "Toho Kaiju / Literally everything else outside of Japan."

I've seen plenty of YouTube videos that are "Top Ten Kaiju" "Strongest to Weakest Kaiju" what have you that include the MUTO's. Are they all inherently wrong for including them, or does the fact they are featured in a Godzilla film, albeit an American production make a sort of bridge between "kaiju" being a Japanese word that describes a very specific type of monster and all other monsters outside of the country?

I’m with the Jurassic Bootleg. If it’s over 100 feet tall I’m calling it a Kaiju. I think the word has evolved past just Japanese monsters, especially with the USA making most of the kaiju films right now. Plus, Kaiju is only 2 syllables vs. giant monster, which is 4

As far as the movie goes, I thought it was incredibly epic.

 Kaiju and Giant Monsters:

Kong: The racing scene with Kong was great. The design looked like the 1933 original, only super-sized. A little upset he didn’t make it to the final battle with Mecha-G, hope WB is saving that for Godzilla vs Kong.

Tyrannosaurus Rex: In the same freaking race we get The T-Rex from JP. Which made a brief, but awesome cameo, in which it smashed some cars and retained its iconic roar.

The Iron Giant: Man The Iron Giant is one tough SOB in this. He takes an ass beating from MechaGodzilla and somehow still survives. I wouldn’t consider him a Kaiju however, he’s a “mech” or simply a robot.

Gundam: I’ve never seen Gundam before, but the design of it/him gave me an Optimus Prime/Power Rangers Vibe. 2 things I love very much, so it was awesome. It was too bad his character ran out of “morphin time”, he was actually putting a hurt on Mecha-G at that point.

***MechaGodzilla***

WOW. Just Wow. He was definitely based off 2014’s design, having the exact same spikes and even Atomic Breath(almost identical)

It was cool having a villain pilot MechaGodzila, something we’ve never seen before. The use of the Godzilla theme was awesome. The Finger Missiles were bad ass and reminded me of the OG MechaG. The overall design gets a 10/10 from me just for the fact it stands on its own as a MechaG design and doesn’t make me think,”oh it’s kiryu” or any other old MG.  Wonder if neca or shma will be making a figure??

*Speculation Time* can’t leave here without stirring up the pot just a little more.

Now that we know Warner Bros has the rights to MechaG, It would look like MechaG is the front running villain for Godzilla vs. Kong, if they intend to have a villain at all. Chances are good that we will see MG in the future, especially with him being introduced to the general public here it makes him very relevant now. Maybe we’ll get more Ifukube’s scores as well. Let’s all hope so at least

I think the MUTO's are just that, "MUTO's" in the lengendary Monsterverse. To me, anything in this Monsterverse is a MUTO just like the "Kaiju" are Kaiju in Pacific Rim. Godzilla, Kong, The Skullcrawlers, the MUTO's are all MUTO's.

What does TOHO classify them as? That would be an answer that would possibly clear things up.

Like I said, Japanese monsters are Kaiju. MUTO's are not. Plain and simple to me.

On the argument of the design of the MUTO's. Like Gman said. Uninspired and another Hollywood Generic monster. They are unique to the Godzilla world for him to fight. But they are all too forgotten compared to the other kaiju and monster designs in any Godzilla universe or cannon. Hell, I think anything in the Hanna Barbara Godzilla cartoon are better than the MUTO's in 2014(here come the hate replies)! I feel like Hollywoods strange infatuation with this design is saturating other great ideas and products that could come out and inspire great giant monster movies here in the states.

Cloverfield is my only exception to the generalization of these movies. not so much the design but by the way it was shot and marketed. that was a great monster movie I don't care what anyone has to say about the movie. Generic design or not it was a great monster.

on the topic of Ready Player One, I cant wait to see this movie! Mechagodzilla sounds amazing! I really do hope the licensing in this movie allows WB to adhere to the monsterverse and allow MechaG fight!

I wouldn't mind after GVK that Kong fights MechaG in another movie. That would be interesting, Kong vs Mechagodzilla 2021! That would be so cool to me. Just saying.

I don't think the license extends to MonsterVerse, could be wrong.

DAMN!

MechaGodzilla's design does beg the question, "why?" I liked the design okay and all, but all the other characters/pop culture references were really spot on--Identical to one prior interpretation or another. It's interesting that MechaGodzilla was literally the only character that had a brand new design. Why?

Did Toho say it couldn't look like previous iterations? Had WB not secured the rights just yet so they made it look a little more like a "Mecha-saurus" until the license was secured? Did WB just want to make it look more like the 2014 design to push their own movie(s)? I'd love to know the background on that one.

My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy. But then again Gman you might be right about them just pushing the design of 2014 down our throats.

  Surely they had the rights secured. I think Spielberg would try and use something different like Godzilla himself or Gypsy Danger rather than a “mecha saurus”  I actually thought it was cool how they made him look more like a machine rather than a tin can copy of Godzilla. And as far as him looking like a dinosaur, I just don’t see it.

That is a great question to bring up. I like to think that Warner Bros. is testing the waters with this new MechaGodzilla and seeing what audiences think. If people like it, they can work it into future Monsterverse films. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part, but damn I'd love it.

The movie takes place in 2045 so who knows what design has MechaGodzilla gone through(Plz forgive me if my English is sucky).

"My best guess is that Toho didn’t want to let them use the rights to an old MechaGodzilla and possibly destroy it’s character. For example, say WB gets the rights to MechaG 74 and makes him a good guy."

While Toho is very protective of their Godzilla property, I'm not sure I can get behind that. Toho only has two trademarks for MechaGodzilla, "MechaGodzilla" and "Super MechaGodzilla"--The former is used for 1974, 75, 93 (without Garuda), 02 & 03. Haven't checked on '18 yet. I don't think they distinguish the rights by incarnation.

That being said, Toho allegedly told both Sony and Legendary that their Godzilla designs couldn't be a carbon copy of past Toho Godzilla designs. (The latter of which supposedly had major restrictions.) I can see Toho mandating a new design for some strange merchandising purpose.

GMAN2887 - I can certainly see your points with regards to Kaiju being Japanese. They gave this wonderful creation! However, Can we not share? The Japanese have large bars devoted to dressing up - and acting like - American cowboys. I do not see it as something as inflammatory as "cultural appropriation". I see it as sharing culture and ideas. Can we not create things to honor and celebrate the creations of others? :)

Something Real,
I don't think celebrating other cultures' creations and said creations being identical are mutually the same. The bars devoted to dressing up like cowboys is an interesting aspect to bring up, but lets be perfectly honest, are they actually cowboys? Of course not. It's sort of like how the monsters in Pacific Rim are called kaiju in-universe, but not really kaiju by trade.

The criteria as dictated by the genre is that kaiju, or more accurately daikaiju, are Japanese giant monsters. Any other criteria is sort of a headcanon/fan made stipulations created only to muddle the entire definition. When everyone has their own definition as to what it is then it has no meaning. There's point in using the word.

Does that mean we're not sharing culture and ideas? Of course not. Clover, MUTO and the "kaiju" in Pacific Rim are clearly inspired on kaiju of Japanese cinema. It doesn't make them kaiju, but it certainly lives up to the idea of sharing ideas.